Lesson 72 questions(diminished scale lesson)

[Pablo De Miguel]

In these lesson PG says that C,Eb,Gb and A diminished chord are, in esence, the same chords,so, does it means that the C diminished scale,for example, play over those four chords?
PG also says that there are two diminished scales for the G chord, but, why are there two diminished scales for one chord, can i use the both of them whenever i want or there are certain situations when one of the scales work better that the other?
And the last thing: In the syn tips there is something about I II V chord progretion and V chords, but I dont understand what does it means.

 

[Calvin Phillips]

I think in a later lesson he teaches you the 2 scales.
I may be wrong…. but I am sure they are whole then half.. then whole.. then half. And then vice versa for the other scale.

 

[idssdi]

Basically the diminished scale works like this, it take the notes out of the diminished chord and you take the note a half step below. That’s your scale. So like Calvin says whole-halve-whole-halve etc. Now since the diminished chord is Symmetric(it’s really 4 stacked minor thirds) every minor third(C Eb etc) the diminished chord is made up of exactly the same notes so therefore the respective diminished scale will also be made up of the same notes. Technically you still talk about Eb diminished not C diminished due to the tone center(weirdly enough it’s not really that different from the way you would look at modes)
The two scales you mean are the whole diminished and dominant diminished scale. The whole diminished is whole-halve-whole-halve etc and is played over dim7 chords and the dominant diminished is halve-whole-halve-whole and is played over dominant7 chords. Generally speaking diminished scales are the kinds scales you can’t really whip out whenever you like. Analyze them and see which notes you can find in them and see which chords you can build from them. That’s usually a good ballpark to find out whether or not you can use a scale over that chord.
Syn probably meant ii-V-I there since that’s a very common harmony in jazz the Roman numerals basically imply the degree of the chords in the scale(lower case minor, upper case major) so for example in G you could have Am-D7-G. He mentioned the V chord because when you have V-I(also called perfect cadence) it sound really cool to play the whole diminished scale a halve step up over the V chord(D# diminshed over D7 for example)

 

[Brian Haner Sr.]

Ids nailed it.

 

[Pablo De Miguel]

Thank you so much, Ids!
But I have one more doubt: So,as you and PG said, to make a diminished scale I take the four notes of the diminished chord and I add the note a half step below those notes, so, as PG said in the lesson, it is like adding a diminished scale to our diminised ecale. Having that in mind and if we take the example that PG use in the lesson a G diminished scale is made up of a G diminished arpeggio(wich is made of G,A#,C# and E notes) and a A diminished arpeggio(wich is made of A,B#,D# and F# notes), and when I was triying to came up how to play the G whole diminished scale all arround the fretboard I found that these scale have 8 positions and that when i was playing any position that start on any G diminished arpegio note I was playing the whole diminished scale patern that PG teach in the lesson and when I was playing any position that start on any A diminished arpegio note I was playing the dominant diminished scale patern that PG also teach in the lesson,so, Does it means that the G whole diminished scale can be used as an A dominant diminished scale too?
And, if these scale are simetrical, I should find the same paterns when I move on to learn how to play the G dominant diminished scale all around the fretboard,right?

 

[idssdi]

Yes that would be correct!
The dominant diminished scale adds the notes a halve step up from the diminished chord so G whole diminished and A dominant diminished scales are made of the same notes. So for example when you would solo over Les yeux Noir by Django Reinhardt(chord progression A7-Dm6-A7-Bb6-Gm6-Dm6-A7-Dm6) you could use A dominant diminished over the A7 and in theory G dominant diminished over the Dm6, D# dominant finished over the Bb6 and C dominant diminished over the Gm6. G7 is a substitution for Dm6, D#7 is a substitution for Bb6 and C7 is a substitution for Gm6. You can find the dominant diminished very easily by taking the whole diminished a halve step up. So A# whole diminished is A dominant diminished.

 

[Pablo De Miguel]

Ok, Thank you very much!!