Let’s Talk About Songwriting!

[Maisie Watson]

Hey guys!
I think everyone can agree that there are a million and one different ways to approach writing a song, whether it be through hours of planning or simply just jamming, we all have our different approaches! I thought it would be super cool for us to all write about our personal approaches to writing songs, there’s nothing better than learning new things from each other to apply to our own compositions / playing!!
Personally, I like to establish a theme and a ‘vibe’ of a song and then I start to jam and throw it around my band to see what ideas arise! If I’m writing alone, I type up all of my ideas into Logic Pro X to get a feel, and then I jam!
So what about you guys? I’m excited to hear your responses!

 

[idssdi]

I used to jam around for a bit and that is still the way the initial idea comes around. But lately I’ve been completely obsessed with where to place the V chord and what comes after the V chord and before the V chord.

 

[Filip Tomiša]

I have nothing prepared when I start making a song. I just go through a bunch of vst instruments until i find enough sounds that really like and then i start combining them. The sound of an instrument is what makes me come up with a melody. The sound is guiding me what to do with it, I don’t really have a melody prepared beforehand. So when i have 15-30 seconds of music I start establishing the vibe of the song and i try to make it interesting with a lot of changes but that it still feels like the same song. I don’t really think about music theory when I’m writing because it just blocks me and i get stuck in this box of rules and i start making generic stuff. I just free my mind of all that and go with this logic: you don’t need to know theory to be able to tell what sounds good. So that’s the way i write, I’m very critical of myself because i want to make the whole song interesting and i want it to be something that i would actually listen so that’s why it takes me a long time to finish the song because I’m not satisfied with generic stuff.

 

[Jak Angelescu]

This is a great post! Thank you for starting this. Songwriting for me is spur of the moment and other times it’s a decade-long process, haha! One of my favorite songs I’ve ever written has a great, simple harmony, but in the beginning when I wrote it, the lyrics were kind of cheesy. But now the lyrics are strong even though it’s been over 10 years since i first wrote it.
Songwriting can be a PAIN with my singer. She is extremely picky about making sure things don’t sound cliche or “dumb” or “too lackluster”. She’ll say to me often “You sound like you just tried to do a Metallica exercise and called it a new riff.” She’s pretty straight up! But BECAUSE of that, I have truly developed my own style! Songwriting for me really doesn’t have a process. Sometimes I write a beautiful amazing song, lyrics and all, in three hours. Other times it’s painstaking. But I ALWAYS try to hear other things to say like “Okay, even if i jut decide to let this chord hang out, what could the drummer be doing?”
Songwriting is really difficult. But it’s really fun! BTW, I see you’re also a drummer in your photo? That’s awesome!!

 

[Maisie Watson]

I completely get what you mean about your singers approach! My band and I are very straight with each other on what is too much of a ‘copy’ or if we don’t like something. It’s great because it pushes us to better the music, even if it means the songwriting process takes a little longer!!
I am a drummer yeah!! My first instrument is the drums, I’ve had lessons in guitar for years on and off but could never really understand it or get into it, until this school popped up! And then I started to look at guitar as more than just an instrument to learn ‘just to songwrite’ with, but to rather, really have fun with!

 

[Maisie Watson]

That’s brilliant! I agree that if something sounds good than the nitty gritty theory concepts shouldn’t be worried about as much! But of course, theory is still an essential tool for any musician, and the better you become at it, the more easily you’ll be able to apply it to your compositions! Sometimes, if I don’t think about theory when writing, I go back and analyse what I’ve written to establish a key, possible modulations, how to make it a bit more interesting, this is sometimes very helpful!
But the main thing to remember is that this is all for fun and that’s exactly what you should do with it!!

 

[Maisie Watson]

In college I studied Bach Chorales which basically form from starting with chord structures and cadences, so this can be a very useful way to start; establishing a start and end chord and then filling in the gaps is often really really helpful and makes the entire process a bit easier!!
If you ever get stuck on where to place certain chords, you could always take the concept of Bach Chorales and first write a baseline. From these notes then fill in the chord, adding the 3rd and 5th or whatever else! E.g, if you have a bassline that has a C note, you could fill the rest of the notes with CEG! Then move onto cadences, how will you end a passage?
Thinking about these things can really make it a lot easier to find where the V chord can go
If anyone doesn’t already know their stuff about cadences or any of the above, research it! I’m available at _maisw on Instagram if anyone wants to have a chat about it!!

 

[Ed Seith]

I’ll usually start with a riff or piece that’s been in my head for a bit. I’ll get a beat going around it (either with drummer or EZDrummer) and continuously play that riff until I get tired of it and want a change, then I see what comes out. I’ll do that a few times, change the beats on the new parts and start getting a loose arrangement. Then, add in items to bridge one section to another, where appropriate.
That’s usually.
This one I’ve pasted below was a weird experiment. Inspired by the simple beat and rhythm of Gnarls Barclay’s “Crazy,” which I’d heard in the movie “Kick-Ass,” I created the simple beat in whatever I was using for MIDI drumming in 2014 (I now use EZDrummer).
So I created a little opening fill and added a random number of repetitions of the beat to the track. Then I picked up the bass guitar, and improv’d the entire thing on the spot – including the arrangement. One take, one try, totally cold – one and done.
I took a little more time with the guitars, but also wrote most of the parts spontaneously (Listening back, I have no idea what I played, and would have to learn it from scratch like someone else’s song if I wanted to play it), though I did “punch in” and record each section separately.
After the rhythms, I did the lead and melody stuff the exact same way. Each piece was no more than 2 or 3 takes, and all improvised.
From “hey, I think I’ll write a song from ‘Crazy'” to mixed and mastered in 12-16 hours. And while there are things I would go back and change (a better guitar solo with more structure and melody, some rhythmic break-ups in the drums, fills, etc), I think it’s actually pretty damn good, and kind of catchy, as far as instrumentals go.
http://edseith.bandcamp.com/track/stream-of-unconsciousness

 

[idssdi]

Small fun fact Gnarls Barkley is Cee Lo Green

 

[Jak Angelescu]

@Maisie so when were you going to inform us that you are Salieri incarnate?

 

[Guest]

I haven’t written any guitar songs yet. Been kicking around a few ideas though. I mostly just jam a bit, toss up some ideas and see what hits. When I find a sound I like, I run with it and see where it goes. Right now their all sitting in my head. Don’t have anything to record with yet. Maybe one day soon.

 

[Maisie Watson]

Oh my goodness Jak, hahaha, I wouldn’t go that far but it’s definitely a compliment! I’m not where I want to be with my theory knowledge but college definitely pushed me with it!!

 

[Maisie Watson]

That’s great!! Don’t worry about recording gear!! Even a little video on your phone is a start, I’d love to hear what you’ve got!

 

[Maisie Watson]

That’s an extremely interesting way to go about songwriting Ed! I’m gonna try some of that myself!!
Transcribing other bands can also be super useful, once you’ve learnt how the bands or artists you love structure things out, it opens a number of doors. I used to think certain A7X songs (e.g, Nightmare) were over complicated, until I learnt the verse and it’s actual super simple but super affective, so now I know to not over complicate things too much! I agree with you that jamming out some simply melodies and then revising them is the way to go!!
The first draft or riff or solo of a song will never be the final product unless you’re super lucky, so it’s a great point to make to go over what you’ve got, you should do that!
Great stuff Ed, the song is awesome!

 

[Calvin Phillips]

My theory on song writing. I read a couple books. Had 3 or 4. Most of the books were chords I never learned. I cared more about the writing.
Usually I start off with a melody. Vocal.. bass .. maybe a drum beat. anything. If it’s in my head. I try to map it out. What does a thunder storm sound like on a guitar. A blizzard, rain.. wind. You get the idea. Then usually after the melody is a repeat or the chorus Instrumentally. Sometimes I love the melody so much I’ll play it again. Then you get into the verse which is USUALLY a simpler version then the intro. Maybe I just palm mute. Play it clean. Arpeggios? Then you decide if you need to build up to the chorus again.. or just slam into it. How does the flow feel? Hit the chorus… you’re at somewhat of a climax at this point.
Is the intro fun enough to play again.. or do we just go back into another verse. Rare times call for a bridge here. Usually I do a repeat. Sometimes you can change up the verse a little the 2nd Time around. I guess it all depends on how much you liked it the first time. But you’re basically repeating the 1st verse and pre chorus if necessary.
And chorus too.. usually by now you’re so into a flow. It’s been building and building and the bridge is finally here. You have many choices in how to climax here. Usually a solo. Maybe a breakdown.. sometimes its vocally. I guess it all is in how you feel the songs going.
At this point you can decide if the bridge is high enough to end on that you dont wanna continue. If not.. then you can end on the chorus. And have an alternate bridge to end on.. usually a repeat of the 1st but you know.. even bigger. If you cant really beat it the 2nd time tho I’d day dont bother and end on the first.
This is just an example. The order can obviously change. But that’s the basics to me. I’ve written every song I have on this theory or method so to speak. My newer music is more jam based and natural sounding.. but they still have followed this method. Theory has also helped make this easier as well.. now you can just say “just play it one octave higher this verse” lol.
End story.