Min7 arpeggio

[idssdi]

I was just reading Syn’s tips at the ‘overview of min7 arpeggio’. I have a question about that and since I can’t comment on the lesson itself I figured I’d ask it here.
In Syn’s tips it’s said that you can use that arpeggio over a dominant chord a perfect 4th away. Then as an example a F7 chord is used and you can use the cmin7 over it. However, Bb is the 4th of F and C is the 5th. Should the Cmin7 be a Bbmin7 or should the 4th be a 5th?
Just wondering because it confused me a little bit.

 

[Christopher Lonski]

You can actually use both. The Bb may sound a little funky over the F7 because it’s the 4 doesnt work great over major chords. The #4 is more useable. But the Db/C# is an augmented 5th, the F is the root, and Ab is a b3, so that would give you an altered dominant sound of sorts, which wont sound great by itself, but if the chord changes to a Bb major, Bb minor, or moves to a Bb7 and you land on one of those chord tones of those when the chord changes, it’ll sound great. Also it’s a perfect 4th behind the F.
Although I DO think he meant the the 5th, Cmin7 because the playing the (v m7) over a (i m7) is pretty common and playing vm7-im7 can create harmonic movement over a static chord which is good. The notes from Cm7 give you C-5th, Eb-b7th, G-9, and Bb-4th. The C minor 7 basically outlines a mixolydian sound which is totally diatonic. The Bbmin7 gives you more of an “outside” jazzy, tense sound.
But another little bit of information is that a dominant 7th chord is naturally the V chord in a diatonic major key. So the major key for F7 is Bb major. You can use ANY of the notes of Bb major over an F7, which also means that you can use any chord or arpeggios from Bb major over the F7 and it will work. Here are all the possible chords from Bb major:
Bbmajor 7- Bb D F A
Cminor 7- C Eb G Bb
Dminor 7- D F A C
Ebmajor 7- Eb G Bb D
Fdominant 7- F A C Eb
Gminor 7- G Bb D F
Aminor7 b5- A C Eb G
Have fun experimenting!

 

[idssdi]

Thanks for the insight I simply confuse myself sometimes Is the dominant chord in minor keys the VII chord in that case?(if you look at a natural minor) If you take the harmonic minor the V chord is the dominant chord. Or do you always take harmonic minor for minor keys?

 

[idssdi]

I found this which already helped with the minor thing(I kinda knew the major stuff already but the natural minor stuff always kind of confused me since the i chord in natural minor is also the Vi chord of natural major)

 

[Christopher Lonski]

I hear ya man. Honestly the best way, in my opinion, to think about it is- what chord am I on, how do all 12 notes relate to that chord, and where is that chord going. Then, whatever your starting chord is, thats your 1 or your root. The whole thing about C Major and A minor being the same or F major and D minor, is totally irrelevant. Thats why so many people learn modes like:
C- Ionian
D- Dorian
E- Phrygian……
and STILL have no idea what the modes are all about. The modes are just major, minor, and dominant scale with different flavors. The 1,3,& 7 define your tonality. The 9, 11, and 13 are all your colors. The 5 can also define things, but it’s mostly a color as well.
So moving forward, I would say to look at EVERY chord and see what you 1, 3, and 5 are and then fill in all the other notes how you like and what your ear is attracted to.

 

[Christopher Lonski]

Also, as the great Dan Gilbert would say, “your new mantra is chord tone, chord scale, key center”. Those are kinda(but not limited to) your options for soloing and writing melodies.

 

[idssdi]

http://musictheoryblog.blogspot.com/2007/02/roman-numeral-chord-notation.html?m=1 I forgot to out this in my last post.
I’ve been experimenting with 9th,11ths,13ths and 7ths for a While now and like to throw them in there sometimes(when the 7 is not in the scale it can be a bit sketchy but used right it creates kind of a tension which I really like)

 

[Christopher Lonski]

You gotta watch out with the 7th though. The 3 and the 7 are what REALLY defines a chord and whether its major, minor, or dominant. Major 3rd & major 7th- Its a Major 7 tonality. Minor 3rd and minor 7th- its a Minor 7 tonality. Major 3rd and minor 7th- Its a dominant tonality. You can literally put everything you come up with in those 3 categories, if you wanna keep it super basic and simplified. This gives you tons of soloing options since any lick you can play over one minor chord, you can play over all the minor chords. Its the same with major 7s and dominant 7s.
Music does have more nuance than that and rules and do’s and dont’s, but I think this is a really good way to at least begin to understand musical movement.