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JOIN THE DISCORD VIEW THREADWhenever I record something I always listen back and think does this mistake bother me? If it does I'll redo it but sometimes there's a mistake that actually really cool and you can never ever do it again because it's basically just lick that it's there.I do hate the modern approach, where one quantizes all the nuance out of everything. I've been listening to a massive mix of old 70s pop and AOR songs lately and just marveling at the nuances of the performances, the rawness of some of them comparatively, even in the context of a pop song.
Yeah I'd agree about the songwriter part, I'm just so confused as to how he was able to even write songs (I know they're not technically complicated) without almost any knowledge of what he was really doing on the guitar. It's fascinating to me I guess, because I wouldn't have the confidence to do that not knowing more than most other people with guitars.Kurt Cobain is a great songwriter, not as much a guitar icon imo
It's a similar discussion you can have about Bob Dylan, great songwriter not really a great singer. Imo you can even have that discussion about Mick Jagger, Mick Jagger being a great performer but more of a talker than a singer.
I think some people are touched with a musical finger or something but most people simply know a lot more about what they're doing than they are willing to admit because apparently it's cool.to be a kick ass guitarist/songwriter without understanding what you're doing.Yeah I'd agree about the songwriter part, I'm just so confused as to how he was able to even write songs (I know they're not technically complicated) without almost any knowledge of what he was really doing on the guitar. It's fascinating to me I guess, because I wouldn't have the confidence to do that not knowing more than most other people with guitars.
I guess at what point does it become disheartening for people with high musicianship skills to see that people who may not have the chops are finding mega-success? Or maybe it's less of a disheartening fact and more of an inspiring one for those who may not be guitar heroes? Idk I guess I admire Cobain's/Dylan's ability to just write catchy stuff (even if it's laughably simple to players) and not care that their plateaued in their playing ability. Perhaps they just downplay their abilities as well...Everyone has their own approach. Kurt clearly didn't spend a lot of time on his chops - BUT - he did have some chops and he did know some chords. He didn't create himself in a vacuum. He obviously grew up listening to music and bands, and whether he wanted to admit it or not - he was influenced. Someone taught him those chords and he practiced. Was he Satriani? No. But he could certainly play a little.
On a separate note - I LOVE Dylan's voice. I like his versions of his songs much better than when someone else covers them. It's an acquired taste, but it grows on you. His phrasing and the way he takes a breath in the middle of a line, which causes an unnatural pause, is brilliant. I actually like his tone, too.
It's like listening to an old blues guy play guitar. Rough, out of tune - and awesome.
I would say the same about Jagger. He was born to sing Stones songs. Love his voice.
It's all subjective. But to me - perfection is boring. With singers AND with guitar players. I want to hear some human qualities. And perfection is seldom a human quality.
Haha yeah the first rule of "cool" is not to try and be "cool" that would make sense. Cobain comes off as slightly arrogant and flippant when he talks about it, though. Almost maybe contemptuous but maybe it's insecurity.I think some people are touched with a musical finger or something but most people simply know a lot more about what they're doing than they are willing to admit because apparently it's cool.to be a kick ass guitarist/songwriter without understanding what you're doing.
I guess at what point does it become disheartening for people with high musicianship skills to see that people who may not have the chops are finding mega-success?
Perhaps they do downplay it. It's often something that's more simple to play that sounds more pleasing, but if you ask me making somethinf simple that sounds good is harder than something complicated. Songs don't require difficult techniques. Think of Green Day, or just majority of bands. A guitar is just a small part of the song. Kurt Cobain for example finished his guitar chords with his vocals. (Rick Beato did a video on this)I guess at what point does it become disheartening for people with high musicianship skills to see that people who may not have the chops are finding mega-success? Or maybe it's less of a disheartening fact and more of an inspiring one for those who may not be guitar heroes? Idk I guess I admire Cobain's/Dylan's ability to just write catchy stuff (even if it's laughably simple to players) and not care that their plateaued in their playing ability. Perhaps they just downplay their abilities as well...
Yes I can surely imagine! Which is why i was curious if that was a real thing. Did you find yourself dumbing down your riffage/music in general because of it? Do we still see it now maybe?As someone who was just beginning to strike out with my first real band around the time Nirvana hit, I can tell you that (for me, at least), it was disheartening and a constant source of anger and frustration. For years.
Yes Green Day is another that comes to mind when I consider simple guitar songs that made bands huge. I just always wonder how much these guys really know about what they're playing or if they just get lucky with a good ear/idea and just go for it.Perhaps they do downplay it. It's often something that's more simple to play that sounds more pleasing, but if you ask me making somethinf simple that sounds good is harder than something complicated. Songs don't require difficult techniques. Think of Green Day, or just majority of bands. A guitar is just a small part of the song. Kurt Cobain for example finished his guitar chords with his vocals. (Rick Beato did a video on this)
Yes I can surely imagine! Which is why i was curious if that was a real thing. Did you find yourself dumbing down your riffage/music in general because of it? Do we still see it now maybe?
They know it, even if they didn't in the beginning they must have learnt. I don't think it really matters how someone learns it. Knowing music theory is more about understanding how music works and how certain sounds or rhythms work together rather than remembering how everything is named.Yes Green Day is another that comes to mind when I consider simple guitar songs that made bands huge. I just always wonder how much these guys really know about what they're playing or if they just get lucky with a good ear/idea and just go for it.
Never mistake art for commerce. They are not always mutually exclusive - but mostly are. Great musicianship often has nothing to do with success or notoriety. Take Satriani, Holdsworth, Malmsteen, etc. NONE of them are even remotely successful compared to your average pop band - or for that matter guitarists that hit the mainstream - Van Halen, Stevie Ray Vaughn, John Mayer, etc.I guess at what point does it become disheartening for people with high musicianship skills to see that people who may not have the chops are finding mega-success? Or maybe it's less of a disheartening fact and more of an inspiring one for those who may not be guitar heroes? Idk I guess I admire Cobain's/Dylan's ability to just write catchy stuff (even if it's laughably simple to players) and not care that their plateaued in their playing ability. Perhaps they just downplay their abilities as well...
Oh yeah I completely understand what you're saying with regard to "platform". The guy/gal who shreds like no ones' business but never leaves the apartment won't ever have his shredding heard by the public, unlike the dude/dudette who knows a few power chords but goes all-in for it and plays/performs with others. I'm sure they end up learning a ton of new stuff along the way, too. I guess maybe the root of my question stems from wondering if the music biz has had a lot of infiltration by "posers", so-to-say, that maybe just rode that "platform" wave..?? I always just assumed everyone who ever had the confidence to record something must just know more than I do about music and guitar. I'm curious from your point-of-view as a studio musician, did you ever find yourself in the room having to record with someone (a frontman, songwriter) who YOU KNEW didn't know much about what they were doing/playing/talking about musically??Never mistake art for commerce. They are not always mutually exclusive - but mostly are. Great musicianship often has nothing to do with success or notoriety. Take Satriani, Holdsworth, Malmsteen, etc. NONE of them are even remotely successful compared to your average pop band - or for that matter guitarists that hit the mainstream - Van Halen, Stevie Ray Vaughn, John Mayer, etc.
The main difference in guys like Van Halen - (and I would respectfully add Syn to this list) is platform. If you have great songs and a successful band - you are naturally going to be a lot more well known than a guitarist with OK songs and no band.
Great songs (and their associated bands) live forever. Great guitar players (without hit records) have much more of a cult following.
Last point. If your band has great songs and you become a guitar legend (like Van Halen), then you can live off of that "guitar slinger" success as well as your songs.
Bottom line: 99.9% of the general public will ALWAYS prefer a Cobain over a Satriani. And 99.9% of guitar players will always prefer Satriani.
Is it disheartening? Sometimes.
^Not anyone specifically haha just in general over the span of working.Oh yeah I completely understand what you're saying with regard to "platform". The guy/gal who shreds like no ones' business but never leaves the apartment won't ever have his shredding heard by the public, unlike the dude/dudette who knows a few power chords but goes all-in for it and plays/performs with others. I'm sure they end up learning a ton of new stuff along the way, too. I guess maybe the root of my question stems from wondering if the music biz has had a lot of infiltration by "posers", so-to-say, that maybe just rode that "platform" wave..?? I always just assumed everyone who ever had the confidence to record something must just know more than I do about music and guitar. I'm curious from your point-of-view as a studio musician, did you ever find yourself in the room having to record with someone (a frontman, songwriter) who YOU KNEW didn't know much about what they were doing/playing/talking about musically??
All I know is being technically good at playing your instrument is a completely different thing compared to writing a good song. If you're a good player but can't write a good song you will not get as well known as a Kurt Cobain or The Beatles for that matter. If you can't play that well but are really creative and can write a good song with what you are able to do(Bob Dylan or Kurt Cobain come to mind) you will get well known and famous. Then there are people Like Syn who can do both.Oh yeah I completely understand what you're saying with regard to "platform". The guy/gal who shreds like no ones' business but never leaves the apartment won't ever have his shredding heard by the public, unlike the dude/dudette who knows a few power chords but goes all-in for it and plays/performs with others. I'm sure they end up learning a ton of new stuff along the way, too. I guess maybe the root of my question stems from wondering if the music biz has had a lot of infiltration by "posers", so-to-say, that maybe just rode that "platform" wave..?? I always just assumed everyone who ever had the confidence to record something must just know more than I do about music and guitar. I'm curious from your point-of-view as a studio musician, did you ever find yourself in the room having to record with someone (a frontman, songwriter) who YOU KNEW didn't know much about what they were doing/playing/talking about musically??
All. The. Time.^Not anyone specifically haha just in general over the span of working.
Syn is definitely the perfect storm of a great platform meets great songwriting ability meets great musicianship. I feel like the Haner Sr/Jr. guitar legacy grows evermore legendary with the creation and maintenance of this community. They're REALLY giving back in a major way. I have no delusions of grandeur of "making it" I barely possess the confidence to play anything in front of others let alone with other musicians hahaha but I was so curious as to how really great musicians felt. Great insights and I definitely agree/understand that there is a fine line between the two sides. I feel like you pegged Clapton exactly right. I always found it fascinating how that generation figured it all out without the help of more modern research/lesson assistance...All I know is being technically good at playing your instrument is a completely different thing compared to writing a good song. If you're a good player but can't write a good song you will not get as well known as a Kurt Cobain or The Beatles for that matter. If you can't play that well but are really creative and can write a good song with what you are able to do(Bob Dylan or Kurt Cobain come to mind) you will get well known and famous. Then there are people Like Syn who can do both.
Than there are people like Eric Clapton who I think has a very hands on knowledge of chords and how they work together (harmony) but doesn't know all the ins and outs. He also is a really good guitar player as well. If you know that you can use an A resolves back to D you can probably write a song in D, you don't necessarily need to know it's a perfect cadence and that resolves tension. Some people have a natural feel for these kind of things.
Basically, you're songwriting skills are way more important than technial ability/theory knowledge if you want to make it in music.
At least that's what I think.
Bahaha damn.. just smile and waveAll. The. Time.
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