Guitar Why Does A7X Track with TWO Tones

[DXMG503]

If anyone here has engineering experience, I’m wondering if you can answer a question about A7X guitar tracking:

Lots of their music has the rhythm guitars quad tracked, with two guitar tones (a left and a right of each tone). One tone has boosted highs and a lot of fizz, while the other is a standard mid-heavy guitar tone.

Can someone answer why they do it this way? Is it simply an industry standard for this type of music, just a way to make the guitars cut through together, or maybe a unique decision by the band maybe?

I’m trying to understand the overall reasoning behind it. Why not just get the tone from one amp? Lots of band simply double or quad track a single tone.

Thanks for all your responses, folks.

 

[Matt Wildcat]

Someone may be able to explain this in more detail or even correct me if I'm wrong, but if memory from college production serves me right - It's a good way to help flesh out the guitar sounds a bit more and is very common. Panning left and right helps to fill out the audio space and provide more clarity which is done with all instruments, and combining different tones using this method can help to achieve a desired sound without muddying it or burying it from just using one tone. I hope that made some sort of sense

 

[DXMG503]

Hey @Matt Wildcat thanks so much for this response. It’s super helpful.

Would you be able share some more of the philosophy around developing these duel tones? Is one tone (say the mid-heavy one) supposed to be the fundamental (or live) tone and the other (high tone) an “effect,” or vice versa?

I know that for more rock/crunch style records, it’s common to mix a crunch tone with a low gain or clean tone - is this sort of the same thing?

Are there other common combinations of this (say a really bass heave tone, mixed with a mid heavy one).

I guess I’m just trying to understand how engineers make decisions about this sort of thing.

 

[Matt Wildcat]

Hey @Matt Wildcat thanks so much for this response. It’s super helpful.

Would you be able share some more of the philosophy around developing these duel tones? Is one tone (say the mid-heavy one) supposed to be the fundamental (or live) tone and the other (high tone) an “effect,” or vice versa?

I know that for more rock/crunch style records, it’s common to mix a crunch tone with a low gain or clean tone - is this sort of the same thing?

Are there other common combinations of this (say a really bass heave tone, mixed with a mid heavy one).

I guess I’m just trying to understand how engineers make decisions about this sort of thing.

No worries at all!

I think that's a pretty good way to put it. Blending of tones can provide much more timbre/texture to the song than a single tone can alone. Of course it's always down to what sound the artist wants and maybe a single tone sound is perfect for them. I'd say there's nothing stopping you from mixing whatever tones you'd like, if it creates what you want it to be. It's actually a lot of fun to just experiment and see what you can make of it.

 

[DXMG503]

No worries at all!

I think that's a pretty good way to put it. Blending of tones can provide much more timbre/texture to the song than a single tone can alone. Of course it's always down to what sound the artist wants and maybe a single tone sound is perfect for them. I'd say there's nothing stopping you from mixing whatever tones you'd like, if it creates what you want it to be. It's actually a lot of fun to just experiment and see what you can make of it.

Ok. Thanks a lot. This is super helpful!

 

[Rad Synner]

What Matt said is pretty spot on. What I would add myself as a sound engineer is that the concept of sound and good tone is very relative and it's very much on a concept of case by case. Basically, you choose the guitar tone on what will serve the song best in terms of realizing the artist's final vision which is a very abstract concept in itself. Are there general rules of thumb? Yes, guitar tone wise you don't want to go too much into the bass in order to leave room for the bass guitar. You would be surprise how much the bass tone plays into the guitar tones when we talk about records.

You don't always notice or hear the bass (unless you focus) on a standard mix, but take out the bass and you will certainly notice that something feels wrong.

Anyways, not the point. To explore more your original question specifically, blending is an essential part to trying to get unique styles and sounds. If memory serves right, one of the reason Avenged has kind of 2 different tones is also because there are 2 guitar players in there with 2 different set of gear as well as technique. It definitely spices things up as while on paper they play the same thing, in reality you have 2 different yet complementary type of sounds from the different gear as well as 2 different approaches.

All that to say that while there are some standards, I would highly encourage you to instead work on your hear and your sound to find what tone(s) will suit YOU best and make your music really you!

 

[DXMG503]

What Matt said is pretty spot on. What I would add myself as a sound engineer is that the concept of sound and good tone is very relative and it's very much on a concept of case by case. Basically, you choose the guitar tone on what will serve the song best in terms of realizing the artist's final vision which is a very abstract concept in itself. Are there general rules of thumb? Yes, guitar tone wise you don't want to go too much into the bass in order to leave room for the bass guitar. You would be surprise how much the bass tone plays into the guitar tones when we talk about records.

You don't always notice or hear the bass (unless you focus) on a standard mix, but take out the bass and you will certainly notice that something feels wrong.

Anyways, not the point. To explore more your original question specifically, blending is an essential part to trying to get unique styles and sounds. If memory serves right, one of the reason Avenged has kind of 2 different tones is also because there are 2 guitar players in there with 2 different set of gear as well as technique. It definitely spices things up as while on paper they play the same thing, in reality you have 2 different yet complementary type of sounds from the different gear as well as 2 different approaches.

All that to say that while there are some standards, I would highly encourage you to instead work on your hear and your sound to find what tone(s) will suit YOU best and make your music really you!

This is some awesome insight, thank you!

To your point about the bass filling the guitar tone, that makes a lot of sense. I remember for Hail to the King, during an interview the band spoke about “ dialling back” the guitars a bit, and said it actually produced a bigger sound, which is counterintuitive.

To your point about having two guitar players, that’s so obvious and I never even thought of that! Maybe the fizzy high tone and the crunchy mid tone were chosen based on Syn and Zacky’s different tastes, and then refined or exaggerated to compliment one another in the mix. That’s a fantastic idea.

 

[Jamie London]

Idk, I just think they could do without the bass player

 

[Matt Wildcat]

Idk, I just think they could do without the bass player

...They have a bass player?

 

[Jamie London]

...They have a bass player?

Kind of I guess
Jk Johnny, we love you

 

[Muz Malek]

...They have a bass player?

What's a 'bass player'? Is it some kind of beer-wine being???

 

[Ed Seith]

What's a 'bass player'? Is it some kind of beer-wine being???

No, it's someone who can't count to six.

 

[Muz Malek]

No, it's someone who can't count to six.

....or someone who can't hear past A#3