How do I keep what I learned, and apply it?

[Dominik Gräber]

So here's the Thing. Guitar is a Hobby for me, I don't practice hours and hours a day. I know that for some Things guitar you just have to put the time and effort in. I am talking about learning the fretboard, your scale(s) and that Kind of stuff.

So that's alright, with a little Bit every day you can do it. At least that's what I thought. But I don't have any way to directly apply it so by the time I move on to learn something different, I forget what I learned.

That makes it hard for me to sit down and practice all the learning stuff because it's nothing that Sticks with me.

How did some of you overcome this? Do you know what I am talking about?

 

[Forgetabull]

Yup, coz i'm in this category too. I forget songs rather quickly. What I spent most of my time doing was learning the tools rather than songs. What it lets me do is "bluff" my way through things.. ie.

• Given I know/find out what key the song is, I can guess my way around the chords or I'm able to improvize fairly well over it when I'm playing with others.
• I can substitute voicings to make things sounds more interesting (or more like I know what I'm doing).

I also used to/still do, watch a tonne of youtube vids on the train (like 5-10mins long each). Even though I didn't have my guitar on me, I'd start remembering what was being shown like ages after I watched the vid.. the "oh.. this is when you use xyz".

I'll never be a rachelf or jassy j type player who can do the songs perfectly note for note, I'm more wanting to end up like a Rob Baker where I can get something "that sounds kinda like" the song and isn't note perfect, but you know what I'm playing.

I'd say the only other thing I can think of, is when I'm learning a technique, i'm trying to work out how to merge it in with how I already play when I'm doing improv. Having said that.. I have not worked out how to switch between picking/strumming and tapping...

I don't know if any of that helps though mate..

 

[Dominik Gräber]

Yup, coz i'm in this category too. I forget songs rather quickly. What I spent most of my time doing was learning the tools rather than songs. What it lets me do is "bluff" my way through things.. ie.

• Given I know/find out what key the song is, I can guess my way around the chords or I'm able to improvize fairly well over it when I'm playing with others.
• I can substitute voicings to make things sounds more interesting (or more like I know what I'm doing).

I also used to/still do, watch a tonne of youtube vids on the train (like 5-10mins long each). Even though I didn't have my guitar on me, I'd start remembering what was being shown like ages after I watched the vid.. the "oh.. this is when you use xyz".

I'll never be a rachelf or jassy j type player who can do the songs perfectly note for note, I'm more wanting to end up like a Rob Baker where I can get something "that sounds kinda like" the song and isn't note perfect, but you know what I'm playing.

I'd say the only other thing I can think of, is when I'm learning a technique, i'm trying to work out how to merge it in with how I already play when I'm doing improv. Having said that.. I have not worked out how to switch between picking/strumming and tapping...

I don't know if any of that helps though mate..

Thanks for the insight! Thing is I don't know many Songs and definetly am not at the Point where I can find a Key, let alone Play anything in a certain Key on the Spot. I know my c pentatonic scale but as soon as I try to shift it to make it a different Key I am getting all confused already

 

[William B.]

I went off topic my bad

 

[Muz Malek]

So here's the Thing. Guitar is a Hobby for me, I don't practice hours and hours a day. I know that for some Things guitar you just have to put the time and effort in. I am talking about learning the fretboard, your scale(s) and that Kind of stuff.

So that's alright, with a little Bit every day you can do it. At least that's what I thought. But I don't have any way to directly apply it so by the time I move on to learn something different, I forget what I learned.

That makes it hard for me to sit down and practice all the learning stuff because it's nothing that Sticks with me.

How did some of you overcome this? Do you know what I am talking about?

Firstly, we need to remember and accept that we are human. We are not perfect, hence will forget, especially if a thing isn't that much of a significance to us,. But I'm not saying that they're totally insignificant.

For me, personally, I have my go-to songs, songs that I'll always remember playing no matter how long ago I learned it. One of them is For The Love of God by Steve Vai. The reason why I remember this song so well is because of how every note in the song just resonates deeply to me when I both hear, play and see how Steve Vai plays it, and then I tried it myself, performed it a good number of times, etc.

Other songs, say for A7X for example, I literally ensure that when I learn them, I try to learn everything. Lead lines, bass lines, rhythm lines, every possible layer you can hear. Try to hear out the drum lines, and the vocal lines also. Make it seep and sync into and with you.

On top of that, try to utilize all your senses as much as possible. By playing guitar, you are primarily hearing and touching. Then comes seeing, and not just seeing yourself play, but seeing someone else play, seeing tabs, etc. I'm not sure how you can taste or smell, hence they're secondary, but probably like the scent of the room you practice in, the kind of diffuser or refresher you use, the smell of your guitar, your amp, etc., all contributes to the most minute detail. Maybe @Syn Gates or @Brian Haner Sr. remembers how to play the older songs by smelling Johnny a lot, idk.

But I hope you get where I'm going.

Cheers!

 

[idssdi]

If you mean your theory/scales it's really about using them. So say you're learning the A harmonic minor scale for example, try to find a backingtrack (minor swing for example) and play over it using that scale everyday. For me, I have some go to scales I use a lot (modes, harmonic minor, double harmonic major, pentatonic and blues) they became go to scales because I used them a lot. I know a little more scales than just those but those are the ones I'm really comfortable with so I use them. Same holds for chords, arpeggios. You remember them by using them a lot. There are also certain songs I can still play even tho I haven't played them in forever just because I played them so much in the past.

It's all about repetition really, the reason I now forget songs is because I learn them and then move on to the next. So, really try revisit some of the things you learn.

Say you have 30 minutes available on a day. Try to subdivide these 30 minutes I to one 15 minute block of something old and one 15 minute block of something new. In that way you will remember the old stuff while still learning something new.

 

[Dominik Gräber]

Firstly, we need to remember and accept that we are human. We are not perfect, hence will forget, especially if a thing isn't that much of a significance to us,. But I'm not saying that they're totally insignificant.

For me, personally, I have my go-to songs, songs that I'll always remember playing no matter how long ago I learned it. One of them is For The Love of God by Steve Vai. The reason why I remember this song so well is because of how every note in the song just resonates deeply to me when I both hear, play and see how Steve Vai plays it, and then I tried it myself, performed it a good number of times, etc.

Other songs, say for A7X for example, I literally ensure that when I learn them, I try to learn everything. Lead lines, bass lines, rhythm lines, every possible layer you can hear. Try to hear out the drum lines, and the vocal lines also. Make it seep and sync into and with you.

On top of that, try to utilize all your senses as much as possible. By playing guitar, you are primarily hearing and touching. Then comes seeing, and not just seeing yourself play, but seeing someone else play, seeing tabs, etc. I'm not sure how you can taste or smell, hence they're secondary, but probably like the scent of the room you practice in, the kind of diffuser or refresher you use, the smell of your guitar, your amp, etc., all contributes to the most minute detail. Maybe @Syn Gates or @Brian Haner Sr. remembers how to play the older songs by smelling Johnny a lot, idk.

But I hope you get where I'm going.

Cheers!

Totally get you! Although my Problem is less about learning Songs but the more "boring" Side of learning guitar. Theory, notes, scales and such

 

[Dominik Gräber]

If you mean your theory/scales it's really about using them. So say you're learning the A harmonic minor scale for example, try to find a backingtrack (minor swing for example) and play over it using that scale everyday. For me, I have some go to scales I use a lot (modes, harmonic minor, double harmonic major, pentatonic and blues) they became go to scales because I used them a lot. I know a little more scales than just those but those are the ones I'm really comfortable with so I use them. Same holds for chords, arpeggios. You remember them by using them a lot. There are also certain songs I can still play even tho I haven't played them in forever just because I played them so much in the past.

It's all about repetition really, the reason I now forget songs is because I learn them and then move on to the next. So, really try revisit some of the things you learn.

Say you have 30 minutes available on a day. Try to subdivide these 30 minutes I to one 15 minute block of something old and one 15 minute block of something new. In that way you will remember the old stuff while still learning something new.

That's great advice, thank you! Definetly need to start a Routine.
But how do I learn and apply scales without getting them all Mixed Up? I learn a lot by visualizing shapes and such but it messes me Up completely having to shift it around the Neck. Especially If I practice multiple "scales" at once

 

[Dominik Gräber]

I went off topic my bad

Huh?

 

[Muz Malek]

Totally get you! Although my Problem is less about learning Songs but the more "boring" Side of learning guitar. Theory, notes, scales and such

If you treat it as dry or boring, then you're not gonna be able to embrace it man.

It's all part and parcel. No one other than yourself can force you to like it So it's your choice, buddy.

If you wanna be good at something, you gotta appreciate every aspect of it!

 

[Muz Malek]

Totally get you! Although my Problem is less about learning Songs but the more "boring" Side of learning guitar. Theory, notes, scales and such

Watch this


"The only thing that's holding you back is the way you're thinking" - Steve Vai

 

[idssdi]

That's great advice, thank you! Definetly need to start a Routine.
But how do I learn and apply scales without getting them all Mixed Up? I learn a lot by visualizing shapes and such but it messes me Up completely having to shift it around the Neck. Especially If I practice multiple "scales" at once

Just as an exercise try to learn the notes in the scale. For example A harmonic minor is A B C D E F G# it does not matter in what order you play them those notes played over a chord progression in A harmonic minor is A harmonic minor. Now find the same notes on a different position of the neck.


For example
E -----------_---------------------------5 7 8
B --------------------------------5 6 9
G -----------+---------4 5 7
D -----------------6 7
A ---------5 7 8
E 5 7 8
And
E 12 10 8
B -----------12 10 9
G ----------------------10 9
D ----------------------------12 10 9
A ---------------------------------------12 11 8
E. ---------------------------------------------------12 10 8

Apologies for the formatting but both of those are the A harmonic minor scale

If you then play for example A natural minor you move the G# a half step down.

Oddly enough this also comes down with how well you know the scale. Try to do one scale at a time and really know them and you probably won't mix them up.

 

[Dominik Gräber]

Just as an exercise try to learn the notes in the scale. For example A harmonic minor is A B C D E F G# it does not matter in what order you play them those notes played over a chord progression in A harmonic minor is A harmonic minor. Now find the same notes on a different position of the neck.


For example
E -----------_---------------------------5 7 8
B --------------------------------5 6 9
G -----------+---------4 5 7
D -----------------6 7
A ---------5 7 8
E 5 7 8
And
E 12 10 8
B -----------12 10 9
G ----------------------10 9
D ----------------------------12 10 9
A ---------------------------------------12 11 8
E. ---------------------------------------------------12 10 8

Apologies for the formatting but both of those are the A harmonic minor scale

If you then play for example A natural minor you move the G# a half step down.

Oddly enough this also comes down with how well you know the scale. Try to do one scale at a time and really know them and you probably won't mix them up.

I either didn't get what you're trying to Tell me or that doesn't Help at all. Of course I can learn the notes of the scale but that doesn't enable me to use the scale for much yet, so I will forget it within some weeks. If I try to learn a different scale I likely either Mix them up or forget the previous one

 

[William B.]

Huh?

yeah sorry I wrote some long stuff and wasn't sure I stayed on topic and deleted it

I got kind of the same problem but it's not too bad cause I kind of know what to do

the others have nice comments as well

Cj made a video how he's learning the notes, it's good and I need to try/do some of that myself to just get better overall.
I want to learn the keys cause and I think I need to be able to apply the circle of fifths and couple more things
I learned all the pentatonics and than forgot them after learning the seven positions of the major scale
So I need to go back 'n' forth. I can remember the 7 positions no problem (kinda)
I just saw steve vai video here so I'm gonna check it out

I guess just when you learn some new thing try to make a quick riff using it and maybe move the same thing to other frets/strings. sometimes the same thing works just with minor adjustments like moving 1 or 2 notes

 

[Brian Haner Sr.]

It's very much like learning a foreign language. You must speak it everyday or you will lose it quickly. Hell, it's like English. There are words I come across that I have not used in many years that I have completely forgotten. Yesterday it was "conflagration". I even used it in one of my books. Had to look it up.
In a more musical sense - I transcribed 10 of Django's solos about 10 years ago. Learned every one note for note. Played them many times. I haven't touched a gypsy guitar in about 3 years. Picked one up last week and I could only remember about 5% of those solos. They're just gone.
Unless you're playing something everyday, it goes away. That's just part of being human.
When A7X goes out on tour again, they will each have to relearn EVERY song by themselves - then get together and rehearse them. You would think after playing those songs hundreds of times, they could fall out of bed after 3 years off and play them easily. Not true. The brain doesn't work that way. It gives priority to what you constantly use and stores the rest away in dark, hard to find places. Sometimes you need to pack a lunch and bring a flashlight to find that shit.

OK - now for some help.
The point to this long story is: you have to use this stuff EVERYDAY (or at least quite often) to remember it. Find a way to apply whatever it is your learning. Incorporate it into a song or jam track. If you stumble onto a cool lick or a cool way to incorporate a scale - record it on your phone. Listen to it the next day and try to repeat it. Add to it. Record that. I have hundreds of snippets on my phone and computer.
I have them all titled; Gypsy, blues, or A Harm minor maybe a song title "All Of Me" - whatever. If I'm working on something I can refer to those vids and they'll refresh my memory. These are hundreds of ideas that I could never possibly remember without help.

One last note:
It's not important to remember everything. Just the important stuff. If something knocks you out and you HAVE to make that a part of you're style - then by all means, try and memorize it and use it all the time. The rest of the stuff is like the word "conflagration". You're probably never going to use it, and if you do need it - you can always look it up.

Cheers!
pg

 

[Dominik Gräber]

It's very much like learning a foreign language. You must speak it everyday or you will lose it quickly. Hell, it's like English. There are words I come across that I have not used in many years that I have completely forgotten. Yesterday it was "conflagration". I even used it in one of my books. Had to look it up.
In a more musical sense - I transcribed 10 of Django's solos about 10 years ago. Learned every one note for note. Played them many times. I haven't touched a gypsy guitar in about 3 years. Picked one up last week and I could only remember about 5% of those solos. They're just gone.
Unless you're playing something everyday, it goes away. That's just part of being human.
When A7X goes out on tour again, they will each have to relearn EVERY song by themselves - then get together and rehearse them. You would think after playing those songs hundreds of times, they could fall out of bed after 3 years off and play them easily. Not true. The brain doesn't work that way. It gives priority to what you constantly use and stores the rest away in dark, hard to find places. Sometimes you need to pack a lunch and bring a flashlight to find that shit.

OK - now for some help.
The point to this long story is: you have to use this stuff EVERYDAY (or at least quite often) to remember it. Find a way to apply whatever it is your learning. Incorporate it into a song or jam track. If you stumble onto a cool lick or a cool way to incorporate a scale - record it on your phone. Listen to it the next day and try to repeat it. Add to it. Record that. I have hundreds of snippets on my phone and computer.
I have them all titled; Gypsy, blues, or A Harm minor maybe a song title "All Of Me" - whatever. If I'm working on something I can refer to those vids and they'll refresh my memory. These are hundreds of ideas that I could never possibly remember without help.

One last note:
It's not important to remember everything. Just the important stuff. If something knocks you out and you HAVE to make that a part of you're style - then by all means, try and memorize it and use it all the time. The rest of the stuff is like the word "conflagration". You're probably never going to use it, and if you do need it - you can always look it up.

Cheers!
pg

Thank you PG! I guess for me it just comes down to starting with a small practice routine to make sure I use it all every day. It's good to be reminded that this happens to all of us, even professional musicians

 

[idssdi]

I either didn't get what you're trying to Tell me or that doesn't Help at all. Of course I can learn the notes of the scale but that doesn't enable me to use the scale for much yet, so I will forget it within some weeks. If I try to learn a different scale I likely either Mix them up or forget the previous one

Still the same applies, if you really know the scale you have used them Soo much that you will not mix them up. It's all about repetition. That you learn a new scale does not mean you have to forget the other scales you learned

I probably voiced it a little strangely but I'm blaming my hangover for that

 

[Calvin Phillips]

It's very much like learning a foreign language. You must speak it everyday or you will lose it quickly. Hell, it's like English. There are words I come across that I have not used in many years that I have completely forgotten. Yesterday it was "conflagration". I even used it in one of my books. Had to look it up.
In a more musical sense - I transcribed 10 of Django's solos about 10 years ago. Learned every one note for note. Played them many times. I haven't touched a gypsy guitar in about 3 years. Picked one up last week and I could only remember about 5% of those solos. They're just gone.
Unless you're playing something everyday, it goes away. That's just part of being human.
When A7X goes out on tour again, they will each have to relearn EVERY song by themselves - then get together and rehearse them. You would think after playing those songs hundreds of times, they could fall out of bed after 3 years off and play them easily. Not true. The brain doesn't work that way. It gives priority to what you constantly use and stores the rest away in dark, hard to find places. Sometimes you need to pack a lunch and bring a flashlight to find that shit.

OK - now for some help.
The point to this long story is: you have to use this stuff EVERYDAY (or at least quite often) to remember it. Find a way to apply whatever it is your learning. Incorporate it into a song or jam track. If you stumble onto a cool lick or a cool way to incorporate a scale - record it on your phone. Listen to it the next day and try to repeat it. Add to it. Record that. I have hundreds of snippets on my phone and computer.
I have them all titled; Gypsy, blues, or A Harm minor maybe a song title "All Of Me" - whatever. If I'm working on something I can refer to those vids and they'll refresh my memory. These are hundreds of ideas that I could never possibly remember without help.

One last note:
It's not important to remember everything. Just the important stuff. If something knocks you out and you HAVE to make that a part of you're style - then by all means, try and memorize it and use it all the time. The rest of the stuff is like the word "conflagration". You're probably never going to use it, and if you do need it - you can always look it up.

Cheers!
pg

Pretty much this. And the muscles needed to play certain things would come and go too. For example tapping.. I rarely do it. So it takes some time to get into it. Ala.find my octaves or whatever.

If you don't play everyday it may be best to master the chords chords maybe the pentatonic that surrounds the chord you play the most. (Ex c chords and c major scales). Keep it really simple. That way.. you can sub notes into the pentatonic and it'll be as if you know other scales when in reality you're just adding notes to the pentatonic scale for the chord. This would give you many different scale options that you won't even know.. but should be able to play overtop the chord you're playing.

 

[Calvin Phillips]

That's great advice, thank you! Definetly need to start a Routine.
But how do I learn and apply scales without getting them all Mixed Up? I learn a lot by visualizing shapes and such but it messes me Up completely having to shift it around the Neck. Especially If I practice multiple "scales" at once

Every key is literally the same.pattern. Ala c major and d major are the same pattern. You literally have to either sit down and remember the major scale pattern. Then start it on the note of the key you want count the frets.. and then you got the new scale.

It takes weeks months.. years to memorize every key. I always loved how jak said that she was told to play the major scale in every key everyday. Thats also another way to remember them all. But honestly if you remember the number pattern. ( 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7.for.example) you can apply it.to the major scale. And a little fret counting will.do the rest. Sounds more difficult then it.Really is.

 

[Muz Malek]

Totally get you! Although my Problem is less about learning Songs but the more "boring" Side of learning guitar. Theory, notes, scales and such

To add-on too, you really, really have to go with learning and playing as many existing songs as possible.

'Application' doesn't necessarily apply to when you wanna write songs. It applies when you are picking up or learning from somewhere(jamming to favorite songs, etc.).

The more you learn them, especially the solos, you'll start to find common patterns. They're gonna appear so common, that the only thing different from one song or solo to another would primarily the style and tone choice(amps, pedals, etc.).

The boring side will come to light as you start to compare one solo to the other, finding similarities and difference and that eureka moment of "now i get why these few dudes played it like this" or "oh so this could be where this came from".

Learn as much as you can from your favorites and your favorites' favorites. Keep the doors open and your music life will be much more colorful. Ask when unsure. Accept when being corrected.

All the best, bro!