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CAGED System – Playing Over Three Chords – D C & G – Lesson 30

MachinaMaiden

New Student
Feb 4, 2020
2
2
I'm so sorry I'm so confused over the theory behind these lessons. I'm understanding the concept for the most part. But I'm struggling with the concept of how did we know to play the A shape pentatonic over the D chord and the G shape pentatonic over the C chord, and now I think it was the D shape pentatonic over the G chord? Is there some sort of theory behind this? Because in future chord progressions, let's say I have a Bmaj chord, how will I know what pentatonic position I can play over that?

My second question is this part of Syn's tips:

"Start the D chord in the "G" shape and then ask yourself, "what CAGED shape of the C chord is in the same "general" position?". If you answered, the "E" shape, you'd be correct. Now what about the G chord? Yep, the "C" shape is right there! "

I'm very confused by what he's asking us to ask ourselves that's highlighted in yellow. Thank you for your help!
 

Calvin Phillips

Music Theory Bragger
Nov 11, 2019
2,588
1,988
I'm so sorry I'm so confused over the theory behind these lessons. I'm understanding the concept for the most part. But I'm struggling with the concept of how did we know to play the A shape pentatonic over the D chord and the G shape pentatonic over the C chord, and now I think it was the D shape pentatonic over the G chord? Is there some sort of theory behind this? Because in future chord progressions, let's say I have a Bmaj chord, how will I know what pentatonic position I can play over that?

My second question is this part of Syn's tips:

"Start the D chord in the "G" shape and then ask yourself, "what CAGED shape of the C chord is in the same "general" position?". If you answered, the "E" shape, you'd be correct. Now what about the G chord? Yep, the "C" shape is right there! "

I'm very confused by what he's asking us to ask ourselves that's highlighted in yellow. Thank you for your help!

Well.. let's say you use d g and c. I'll be honest. I dont know any of those oebatonics be heart. But.. what I have started to memorize is the penatonic pattern that surrounds the arpeggios shape. The pattern and shape dont seem to change. Sonif you're playing a c shape.. the penatonic pattern inside the c shape doesn't change regardless of the chord the shape is for.

My favourite positions are a and e. I also do a bit in the c position. But I know my patterns pretty well around a and as well as e shapes. I'm getting better st the c shape. G and d are the two I barely use but they are easy to put together. Try think of it like that. Rather then asking "which chord am I playing" ask "which penatonic pattern fits in this shape?
 

Calvin Phillips

Music Theory Bragger
Nov 11, 2019
2,588
1,988
Part 2 of your question I'm sure he's asking you if you played a c shape for d major. You want to stay within the same 3 frets but play a different chord shape. This is what he's asking.. you may have to do it like.. okay g is g e d c a. So if you played the c shape for d major. Your g is ideally there to in the same area if the fretboard board.

Hhope thatd not too hard to get. With this info you could then follow the penatonic example I gave in my 1st reply. Ideally this makes it easy to change up scales between chords without too much movement on the fretboard.
 

Calvin Phillips

Music Theory Bragger
Nov 11, 2019
2,588
1,988
Man, this is so cool but so daunting for a beginner. Gives me a lot to think about/practice. And I here I thought that just getting the CAGED patterns down was tough...
I myself cant changed per chord like pg does. And I've been looking at caged for a year now. However I have started to recognize the penatonic patterns AROUND the caged patterns. Once you see those patterns you really cant go wrong knowing which scale to follow. You just gotta find the caged position of whatever chord you're playing and the pattern around the shape never changes. Difficult to understand at first.. but give it a month or 2 and you'll see what I'm trying to say.
 
Synner Endless Summer Collection

cpher0327

New Student
Jan 2, 2020
1
0
I'm so sorry I'm so confused over the theory behind these lessons. I'm understanding the concept for the most part. But I'm struggling with the concept of how did we know to play the A shape pentatonic over the D chord and the G shape pentatonic over the C chord, and now I think it was the D shape pentatonic over the G chord? Is there some sort of theory behind this? Because in future chord progressions, let's say I have a Bmaj chord, how will I know what pentatonic position I can play over that?

My second question is this part of Syn's tips:

"Start the D chord in the "G" shape and then ask yourself, "what CAGED shape of the C chord is in the same "general" position?". If you answered, the "E" shape, you'd be correct. Now what about the G chord? Yep, the "C" shape is right there! "

I'm very confused by what he's asking us to ask ourselves that's highlighted in yellow. Thank you for your help!

I'm kind of confused too and kind of guessing, but I think the theory behind is that it's just the scale for the chord. When you're playing a D chord, you can play the D major or D pentatonic scale over it. (Until I tried answering this question, I was thinking of it as a Bm pentatonic scale over a D, but I think those scales have the same notes and are relative majors and minors according to the Circle of Fifths... more theory, not yet learned here, I don't think.) But, yeah, I think for a C chord, you would play the C major pentatonic (which is the same as Am pentatonic), and for a B chord, you could use a B major pentatonic scale. You can play the full major scales too (the pentatonic just takes two notes out), but the two extra notes, he says, I think, are more for embellishment which is a lesson I haven't gotten to yet.

I hope that makes sense. It seems to to me. Going back between shapes and chords are confusing me though and I have to pause to think a lot. Like, you can have a D chord in a G shape and vice versa. That confuses me a little bit about your question too; I'm not sure exactly what you mean by G shape pentatonic and such. I tend to think of it in terms of root note first, because that's what I first looked at when I first started playing I guess.

As for your second question, I had to read Syn's tip several times beforeit started to click, ha, for the same reason I was confused earlier: going back and forth between shape names and chord names. But, I think I got it. So, if you have a D chord in the shape of G, you're on the tenth fret of the E strings, 9th on the A, etc. So, without moving your hand up and down the fretboard, how can you make a C chord? The closest C note is on the 8th fret of the E string (and the 10th fret of the D string), so the "shape" of the chord using that position would be the "shape" of an E chord.
 

Ben newton

Garage band Groupie
Nov 11, 2019
32
118
32
www.instagram.com
14
I'm so sorry I'm so confused over the theory behind these lessons. I'm understanding the concept for the most part. But I'm struggling with the concept of how did we know to play the A shape pentatonic over the D chord and the G shape pentatonic over the C chord, and now I think it was the D shape pentatonic over the G chord? Is there some sort of theory behind this? Because in future chord progressions, let's say I have a Bmaj chord, how will I know what pentatonic position I can play over that?

My second question is this part of Syn's tips:

"Start the D chord in the "G" shape and then ask yourself, "what CAGED shape of the C chord is in the same "general" position?". If you answered, the "E" shape, you'd be correct. Now what about the G chord? Yep, the "C" shape is right there! "

I'm very confused by what he's asking us to ask ourselves that's highlighted in yellow. Thank you for your help!

To answer the B major question, it will be the same shape used for the C major chord using the G shape. Heres why;

The whole idea of the CAGED system is to stay within certain areas of the fretboard. This would mean playing chords in certain shapes in order to achieve that goal. This doesnt just always apply to chord shapes, but also to scales and arpeggios too. To go back to you B major question, following the chord progression using the A shaped D chord, the G shaped C chord and the D shaped G chord, its safe to say these chords fall from fret 5 to fret 8. The reason why your B chord would be a G shape is to follow that system as closely as possible. Playing an E shaped B chord brings the shape too far out the box. Therefor needing the G shape. I hope this part makes sense.

(Just to confirm, these shapes will change depending on the area of the fretboard!)

The reason why the answer of an E shaped C chord is correct is because we have now moved fret areas. E shaped C chord suggests we are now between frets 8-10. Therefor a D chord in a G shape very much ticks the box.

The CAGED system is a shape based system,. The practice is identifying how to relate chords to certain areas (technically just 5 areas) of the fretboard as well as identifying how they relate to say, scales and arpeggios. Scales and arpeggios follow the CAGED rule too! This is lots of practice but very well worth the time and effort!

Not sure if I answered the first question, but PG is playing D major pentatonic over D major, C major pentatonic over C major and G major pentatonic over G major.

Hope this helps!
 

Chris Johnston

Music Theory Bragger
  • Nov 11, 2019
    759
    10
    1,883
    29
    North Ayrshire, Scotland
    14
    I'm so sorry I'm so confused over the theory behind these lessons. I'm understanding the concept for the most part. But I'm struggling with the concept of how did we know to play the A shape pentatonic over the D chord and the G shape pentatonic over the C chord, and now I think it was the D shape pentatonic over the G chord? Is there some sort of theory behind this? Because in future chord progressions, let's say I have a Bmaj chord, how will I know what pentatonic position I can play over that?

    My second question is this part of Syn's tips:

    "Start the D chord in the "G" shape and then ask yourself, "what CAGED shape of the C chord is in the same "general" position?". If you answered, the "E" shape, you'd be correct. Now what about the G chord? Yep, the "C" shape is right there! "

    I'm very confused by what he's asking us to ask ourselves that's highlighted in yellow. Thank you for your help!

    Hey Machinima! There's a solid simple theory behind how to do what you're asking.
    It looks complicated typed out - but in practice it makes sense!)

    Here's how I think of it all - I've attached a picture to help)

    - The Pentatonic Scale has 5 notes in it, therefore it has *5 shapes/positions* on the neck;

    - 5 'shapes/positions' but all the same scale - meaning if 1 shape/position works over a chord then they all will. They are all connected as one big repeating pentatonic scale over the entire neck.

    -Your Pentatonic Scale can serve as being either MAJOR or MINOR - Depending on which note you start from & which type of chord you use the shape over. The scale is basically like a big chameleon :love:

    - Most people will know the Minor Pentatonic shape/position 1 - You would use this for Minor Chords - So if you were playing over an A minor chord, you would start Shape 1 from 5th fret Low E string (A note)

    - All you do to make a Major Pentatonic scale is to start from the next shape up to the right: Shape 2 - This is your Major Pentatonic scale's starting point and you would use this for Major Chords - So if you were playing over a C Major Chord could start from Shape 2 from 8th fret low E string.

    - The pointsabove can be confusing at first but just think of the starting position that you choose as the thing that switches the scale from being from a Major or Minor point of view.

    Example: If you're looking to play over a B Major Chord - You would use the B major Pentatonic shape - Starting on 7th fret (the note B) - however you can also use the other shapes connected to it in the 5 shape pattern of the scale, as all of the same notes are in all of the shapes.

    So basically, if you know the chord's quality that you want to solo over (Major/Minor) then you can make the decision to start from the 1st or 2nd shape in the diagram I've attached - As long as the first note of the shape you start on is the note that names the chord (A, for a minor etc) then it will work.

    I hope this helped! :)
     

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    doublechokeslam

    Garage band Groupie
    Jul 14, 2020
    1
    2
    The tab shows the G notes at the start of this when it starts in D. Shouldn't the start be the A position of the pentatonic scale since the key is D?
    I'm sure the tab is wrong. see attached picture.

    I think this might be why so many users are getting confused here.
     

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    Simpletone

    Campfire Attention Holder
    Jul 14, 2020
    6
    4
    In this lesson we show you how to change between three different pentatonic scales over their correlating chords.
    This stuff is awesome. I'm learning so much I have to stop after every lesson and practice to digest all the knowledge :)
    I have a question, what does Brian use to generate the backing track (drums+chords+bass) in this video. Is that a kind of pedal where he can dial-in a chords sequence or something like that?
     

    tj.broomfield

    Stairway to Heaven Tab Studier
    Jan 24, 2021
    3
    8
    The tab shows the G notes at the start of this when it starts in D. Shouldn't the start be the A position of the pentatonic scale since the key is D?
    I'm sure the tab is wrong. see attached picture.

    I think this might be why so many users are getting confused here.
    I came to the comment section to type this too. in the screenshot there, I think Papa Gates (am I allowed to call him that? Sorry Mr. Haner) is playing the A shape (which makes it a D chord*) but for those looking at the tabs, it shows the D shape.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm understanding this as I hope I am:
    in the 6th measure, the "5" should be a "4" on the D string
    and
    in the 7th measure, there should be a "8" should be a "7" on the B string


    If I'm right then this is making a lot more sense now, so for those struggling, stick with it!

    *for those who may be struggling to learn, I think having the image Chris Johnston posted above me which has the positions is important to learn (position 1-5 which are the EDCAG shapes respectively in the image)
    When using the CAGED on the 5th fret, you must now think of each chord (and therefore scale) as being moved to a shape TWO AHEAD of the letter in the mnemonic CAGED. (Why two? Because you've moved up two stages in the system to get to that 5th fret; you can test it by playing the chords that appear above the measures -D, C, G- in the video in open position and moving them through the caged system until you get to the fifth fret and your new shape should match the corresponding open chord)

    IE. If I'm playing the C chord on the 5th fret, you've now moved it to a caGed (G) Shape
    if you want to play an A chord (which is not a part of this particular lesson), you must move its shape up as well, making it an cagEd (E) shape and play the E shaped pentatonic.
     
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    Synner Endless Summer Collection

    Alexander

    Local Dive Bar Favorite
  • Nov 11, 2019
    45
    40
    AZ
    28
    The tab shows the G notes at the start of this when it starts in D. Shouldn't the start be the A position of the pentatonic scale since the key is D?
    I'm sure the tab is wrong. see attached picture.

    I think this might be why so many users are getting confused here.
    This is my understanding as well. It’s should be the A shape pentatonic. 5-7, 5-7, 4-7, 4-7, 5-7, 5-7.