I think we should be more open about music in general

[Ed Seith]

Linkin Park got harshly (and rightly) criticized for Meteora being Hybrid Theory Part II. It seemed very calculated to be that, to maximize commercial potential. LP are a band that always slaved over the songwriting process, methodically perfecting everything, and that was their craft and they were AWESOME at it. But I really couldn’t get into One More Light or – I think it was Little Things? I can’t remember the name of the record. But as divergent as their other stuff was, I did always dig it.
Parkway Drive I only discovered a month or so ago. Ire is fantastic. I didn’t realize the new album dropped already; added to the playlist.
Getting outside your genre as a musician is important, too. Metal is my blood, but then you listen to Brad Paisley, Brian Setzer, Mark Knopfler – those guys are absolute BEASTLY guitar players, and their songwriting and craft are different, without being way out there. Then you can get into some stuff like classic vocalists – Tony Bennett (her duet album with Lady Gaga is actually REALLY good), Neil Diamond, Barbra Streisand, etc. Amazing stuff. There’s so much great music out there (and almost none of it is current Top 40 stuff – blech).
Horizons are meant to be broad, by definition. Like @daniel said, though – established band experimentation has its limits, if they don’t want to alienate fans. Avenged have covered a lot of ground within different metal genres, and done the odd song here or there outside the realm (i.e. Dead God), but a whole country album? I dunno about that.

 

[idssdi]

@daniel IMHO is doesn’t matter what an artist did beforehand, it just has to be good. If A7x’s next record is a soul record or a gypsy jazz record and it is good I still love it.

 

[Dominik Gräber]

@daniel, I totally understand your opinion but personally have to disagree in some points. It is true for a fans perspektive that an established band shouldn’t do a 180 degree turn and do something completely different. Still every band should have the right to do so if they feel like. And as a real fan you should then not hate on them and spread this hate all over the internet, what, sadly, many people do. You don’t have to keep listening, just accept it and show a little support.
As when it comes to The Stage. In my opinion this is just way beyond average. In fact, there are quite a few songs that I can’t listen to every day because of the singing and instrumental work doesn’t always suit me. But that’s not what makes the record great. It is the experimenting, the concept, the lyrics (also the instrumentally delivered lyrics) and the messages behind the sound that make this piece like non other.
And yeah, there are certain styles I can’t imagine A7x to play, but let’s be honest, these guys are talented to play almost any musical genre. Also we should keep in mind that a band can never do something that “they are not”. There is no such thing as “this latetest record of them is so not linkin park”. Everything a band does is what a band is.

 

[Daniel Sobota]

By all means, everyone should try listening to all kinds of music. I’m a metalhead through and through, and to the point where I have sworn an imaginary oath to metal, but I still listen to other genres. I don’t necessarily like every genre/artist out there, but I do listen to loads of music styles. It’s just that metal is above everything for me.
To add on the experimentation thing, I think if established bands want to experiment so much that is out of their usual sound, having a side project would make the fans appreciate the sudden change in sound a lot more. For example, Nergal from Behemoth has started an acoustic/blues/folk solo project (I think you would love this stuff Papa Gates!), but it would be rather odd and unfitting if Behemoth, a black metal band, suddenly started making songs like that. That’s why I appreciate people like Nergal so much, he knows how to present experimentation in a way that would be more accepting. I dislike when bands force drastic changes in sound onto fans. Suicide Silence did that and started calling their fans all kinds of horrible things because they didn’t like their latest record.
Also, a change in sound with a band like Parkway Drive isn’t that massive. They’re still playing heavy metal. So they don’t deserve the flack they’re getting.
@Ids The thing is that when bands do total sound changes, those records aren’t that good. Why? because they’re not used to making music with such styles. Just because Avenged make good metal albums doesn’t mean they would make a good soul album. The same thing applies for every other artist. I don’t think Nick cave would make a good thrash metal record haha.

 

[Dominik Gräber]

Well a side project is a very nice idea, but a band is formed by its members and if everyone feels like trying out new sounds, they would still do it as a band, right? And why not, the band should just announce that that sound change may not be a final one.

 

[Daniel Sobota]

There are more creative ways of presenting a change in sound. If all band members want to do something different, they can do it under a different band name. To me that would actually be really cool, as if it’s the band’s alter ego with a totally different sound. I would respect that more than “we are going to completely change our sound to the point it’s a totally different band, and if you don’t like it, f**k you”. That attitude is just completely wrong.

 

[Dominik Gräber]

No @daniel, a band does music because it’s their passion in the ideal case. So if a band decides to go that way they have every right to. But they have to await the backlash from their fans.

 

[Ed Seith]

I like the side project idea, especially if it gets the dynamics of a couple different people in there. Times of Grace is an awesome side project of Jesse and Adam from Killswitch. Fight or Flight was a great record from Danny and one of the other guys from Disturbed. Hell, isn’t A Perfect Circle a side project?
Isn’t Portnoy’s entire post-DT existence an endless string of side projects?
As far as “real fans,” I have to admit – it took me more decades than I’d like to admit that I DON’T HAVE TO LIKE EVERYTHING A BAND DOES to call myself a fan. Slipknot helped me with that realization. I think most of their stuff is okay, but Vol 3: The Subliminal Verses is a fucking masterpiece (no, not a Disasterpiece). I *LOVE* that album, and a handful of other songs, but I won’t put any other album on, end to end. I can still call myself a fan. That’s okay.
For Avenged, I really don’t like most of what came before City of Evil. Sacrilege, I know. I’m sorry. And no, I don’t “think I can do better.” It’s still fantastic material and I have tremendous respect for it, it’s just not what I enjoy listening to – I prefer my Shadows singing. Anyone who dares tell me I’m not a fan can bite me. Hard.
This is a great discussion!

 

[Daniel Sobota]

I’m not saying a band doesn’t have a right to do something completely different. But the way bands are presenting those changes is in most cases wrong. It’s like when bands start saying “well, we make music just for ourselves anyway”. Then why did you release it and not keep it for yourselves? As I said, the hardest thing to do is balance everything. That’s why I respect the bands who do music for both themselves and the fans. Pantera were a band like that, and everyone loves them for that reason.

 

[idssdi]

I really couldn’t care less about what kind of music a band is supposed to make. If it is good it’s good. Also don’t care about under what name they make it. A7x might as well make an opera with a lot of classical if it’s good it’s good and that’s that.

 

[Daniel Sobota]

@Ids yeah, but I don’t think A7X making an opera album would be good. The same way Adele making a death metal album wouldn’t be good. We can compare this to other arts as well. Picasso wouldn’t be good at painting realism. Quentin Tarantino wouldn’t be good at directing a teen comedy. There is a reason why art is divided in sections and sub-sections, because everyone is good at something different.

 

[idssdi]

If they’ve never done it, how do you know it wouldn’t be good? Maybe it will be amazing who knows. My point is a good record is a good record what music you want to hear from them is completely irrelevant. Whether Robin Nolan makes a gypsy jazz record or Avenged Sevenfold makes a gypsy jazz record doesn’t matter. If it’s good it’s good. Whether they are able to make a good record in a different style I don’t know but still if they do and it’s good it’s a very elitist thing to complain about it.

 

[Daniel Sobota]

I was waiting for the “elitist” comment haha.
It’s just an assumption, but an assumption that is more plausible then them doing a good opera record. We could get this calculated with the help of statistic medians which would determine the probability of the opera record sounding good. If they were to create an opera album without the help of outside writers, it wouldn’t probably sound as good. But if they’re writing with the help of opera artists, it has more chances of ending up sounding good.
That’s why all those pop/hip-hop artists use so many outside writers, because they can’t tackle all those styles by themselves.

 

[Dominik Gräber]

@Ids, you are right! Music is music and nobody knows what works until you tried it. Maybe Avenged going for an opera album would suck. But maybe it would be an awesome piece of music, just not for all a7x fans.
I am also the opinion that more bands could make like an acoustic album, just in between. Not a total change forever. Because so many metal singers use their voices for only screaming and energy packed songs where they have incredible singing voices. Matt is the best example.
Oh and another thing. Love to discuss things with you guys!

 

[Mariler]

Musicians are artists and music is the way they express themselves. Life changes people and they just use music to talk about whatever or however they feel at that moment. You are not the same person when you are 20 years ol than when you are 30 or 40. I think musicians try to express what they feel, no what the fans want to hear.
Metallica’s black album was criticized by their fans and if it wasn’t for that album I would never have given them a chance. Now they are one of my favorite bands ever.
Sometimes a more or less drastic change can bring new fans and let other people know what your band is doing.
I always try to be open minded. As Ids said good music is good music no matter if it is very different from what a band did before.

 

[Jak Angelescu]

I always love and live by the quote that The Rev said: “You become a different person every two years. I don’t care who you are.” Because it’s the truth. People need to accept that musicians grow and evolve. Even someone like Tom Delonge of Blink 182. He branched off and did Boxcar Racer because he got tired of the repetition of the “high school dilemma” anthems. I’m definitely not the same guitarist I was 10 years ago. I’m not the same person nor the same musician. We go through things and we learn new things. Evolution, growth and change are all beautiful things.

 

[Daniel Sobota]

We can talk about evolution and change being beautiful as much as we want, but if I don’t like it, I don’t like it. That’s pretty much the end of it.
I can accept the change, but not necessarily support it if I’m not into it. Most of the times when those drastic changes happen, I’m not into it. If other people are, great. But we’re all different and take in things differently.

 

[Jak Angelescu]

Oh yeah I agree. You don’t have to like anything. I’m just saying that from an artist’s perspective, it’s okay to do it, you know?

 

[Daniel Sobota]

Absolutely. But as I said, most bands that drastically change force that change upon their fans and have this sort of unfriendly relationship with them. I yet have to see a band that does a really different record and isn’t hostile about it. Usually it’s “if you don’t like it, we don’t need you” rather than “it’s okay if you don’t like it, maybe you’ll like the next one better”.
Even Chester was flipping off people who didn’t like that latest LP album at some live shows. I mean no disrespect to him because we all know what happened, but that wasn’t a very professional thing to do.

 

[Sayonil Mitra]

It all depends on perspectives I think. It is hard for artists to completely go out of their fan favourite musical zone now a days. There are fans who have diverse music taste. They will be welcome to any change in the band’s musical journey. But let’s be honest. Most of the people in this world are not. And now, there is so much emphasis on the business aspect of music rather than the music itself, it’s a risky decision to explore a lot. Change, in any area, faces a lot of opposition in general. We music fans almost always want to hear the same damn thing from our fav band. It depends on how the artist/band wants to deal with it. You may play it safe. You may very slowly introduce your fans to the change you are bringing. You may put it in front of us all of a sudden. You may not experiment at all. You may experiment within staying your genre. Some marketing student once told me, people as a whole relate more to a brand. And I think that’s the curse with music. Bands will always face criticism for trying something new, for differing from their brand. So it really comes down to the band how they want to deal with it.