Advanced Use of augmented arpeggios?

idssdi · Jan 16, 2020

I know you can use the diminished scale and diminished arpeggios a halve step up over dominant 7th chords(F diminished over E7 for example) now I started wondering whether you have something similar for augmented arpeggios. Like for example over a Fmaj7 you can do an E augmented arpeggios even though E augmented has a G# sharp in it which is the minor third of F.

Dominik Gräber · Jan 16, 2020

Can't really Help you but have a question. What exactly is an arpeggio? From my understanding it's playing the notes of a chord but Not strumming the chord.

idssdi · Jan 16, 2020

Dominik Gräber said:
Can't really Help you but have a question. What exactly is an arpeggio? From my understanding it's playing the notes of a chord but Not strumming the chord.

An arpeggio is a broken chord where each of the notes in the chord are played separately and not together.

Arpeggio is also Italian for like a harp

Andrew Milner · Jan 16, 2020

Hm, given that G#/Ab note there, it may work better over an Fm chord actually, given that Fm is F-Ab-C and Eaug is E-G#-C. I also see this as one of those weird scenarios where you can use an Fm(maj7) chord (yeah, that's a thing).

An Fm(maj7) chord is basically F-Ab-C-E. You could try and see if it works.

idssdi · Jan 17, 2020

Andrei Moraru said:
Hm, given that G#/Ab note there, it may work better over an Fm chord actually, given that Fm is F-Ab-C and Eaug is E-G#-C. I also see this as one of those weird scenarios where you can use an Fm(maj7) chord (yeah, that's a thing).

An Fm(maj7) chord is basically F-Ab-C-E. You could try and see if it works.

Yeah I heard about Fm(maj7) chords but I've never touched them.

Brian Haner Sr. · Jan 17, 2020

Well now you're getting into jazz. You can use it in a lot of places, but let's start with two. Firstly, it can be used over the V in a II-V-I situation. So Let's say you've got: Cm7 - F7 - Bb. You can play a Cm7 arp up, then a F7+5 arp down, and finally a BbMaj7 arp. Works great when your V chord is an altered 7 - especially a b5, but it works over any altered 7.
Another great place is to use it is over a 9b5 chord by playing the aug arp a step above the chord. So a F7+5 arp works over an Eb9b5.
Let's look at the two chords:
Eb9b5 = Eb, G, A, Db, F
F7+5 = F, A, C#(Db), Eb
So as you can see - all the notes in F7+5 arp are in the Eb9b5 chord.
So say you're playing some blues I-IV-V. A7 D7 E7. Throw in an Eb9b5 just before you change to the D7. Play your F7+5 arp over it and I guarantee you will smile!

Who else wants to add other situations where a aug arp works?

idssdi · Jan 18, 2020

Brian Haner Sr. said:
Well now you're getting into jazz. You can use it in a lot of places, but let's start with two. Firstly, it can be used over the V in a II-V-I situation. So Let's say you've got: Cm7 - F7 - Bb. You can play a Cm7 arp up, then a F7+5 arp down, and finally a BbMaj7 arp. Works great when your V chord is an altered 7 - especially a b5, but it works over any altered 7.
Another great place is to use it is over a 9b5 chord by playing the aug arp a step above the chord. So a F7+5 arp works over an Eb9b5.
Let's look at the two chords:
Eb9b5 = Eb, G, A, Db, F
F7+5 = F, A, C#(Db), Eb
So as you can see - all the notes in F7+5 arp are in the Eb9b5 chord.
So say you're playing some blues I-IV-V. A7 D7 E7. Throw in an Eb9b5 just before you change to the D7. Play your F7+5 arp over it and I guarantee you will smile!

Who else wants to add other situations where a aug arp works?

Does it work over any V-I part? Like in minor swing where it goes Am6-Dm6-E7 do Am9-Dm9-E7+5 Arpeggios over it?

Brian Haner Sr. · Jan 18, 2020

Ids Schiere said:
Does it work over any V-I part? Like in minor swing where it goes Am6-Dm6-E7 do Am9-Dm9-E7+5 Arpeggios over it?

Yes! E7+5 arp works great over the E7.

idssdi · Jan 18, 2020

Brian Haner Sr. said:
Yes! E7+5 arp works great over the E7.

Hmm I'm gonna try mixing augmented an diminished arpeggios, double harmonic major and things I would usually do I've B minor.

Could be pretty interesting

Brian Haner Sr. · Jan 18, 2020

Ids Schiere said:
Hmm I'm gonna try mixing augmented an diminished arpeggios, double harmonic major and things I would usually do I've B minor.

Could be pretty interesting

Absolutely! And don't forget the E Phrygian Dominant over the E7. (5th degree of A Harmonic minor)
And if you want to get a bit more "out", there's always the E altered scale (7th degree of F Melodic minor)

idssdi · Jan 18, 2020

Brian Haner Sr. said:
Absolutely! And don't forget the E Phrygian Dominant over the E7. (5th degree of A Harmonic minor)
And if you want to get a bit more "out", there's always the E altered scale (7th degree of F Melodic minor)

I tend to use harmonic minor over the Am and Dm already and kind of like to change it up a little when I get to V chord. I tried using the E altered scale too but haven't really found a way to use it that I like the sound of it.

Brian Haner Sr. · Jan 18, 2020

Ids Schiere said:
I tend to use harmonic minor over the Am and Dm already and kind of like to change it up a little when I get to V chord. I tried using the E altered scale too but haven't really found a way to use it that I like the sound of it.

Right on. Altered scale is an acquired taste and really not used much in pure Gypsy. It gets you quickly into Be-Bop if you're not careful.
Harmonic minor can be used over everything - as you have found. It has such a distinctive color that you can overuse it very easily.
Love that you can hear all that and you are mixing it up!
Good work!

idssdi · Jan 18, 2020

Brian Haner Sr. said:
Right on. Altered scale is an acquired taste and really not used much in pure Gypsy. It gets you quickly into Be-Bop if you're not careful.
Harmonic minor can be used over everything - as you have found. It has such a distinctive color that you can overuse it very easily.
Love that you can hear all that and you are mixing it up!
Good work!

I do have some good teachers who help me with this stuff

Calvin Phillips · Jan 19, 2020

Ids Schiere said:
I do have some good teachers who help me with this stuff

Yeah theyve been lively this weekend on the forums!

idssdi · Jan 19, 2020

I think I have a new pet peeve. Doing E+5 Arpeggios and follow it by F diminished arpeggios over E7

Chris Johnston · Jan 24, 2020

A bit late to the discussion here but I love Augmented arpeggios

It's worth remembering that Augmented & Diminished arpeggios are Symmetrical, so if you can play an E Aug arp over an E7, you can also play a G# & C Aug arp over it (As they contain all the same notes and are all inversions of eachother) - and if you can play an F Dim Arp over an E7 you can also play Ab, B, D Diminished Arps over it. - Even though each are technically all the same arpeggio, it can be helpful to think of them as separate fragments to end up in different harmonic places after the V chord.

Here's some simple ways to get use out of these 3 Aug arps in a ii V I situation (Key of A) :

1. If when the V chord hits, you play the C Aug arp descending,the last note you hit is 'C', then you do a half step slide up to C#, and it lands you smoothly into the 3rd of the I chord. (You can get the same result if you play your E Aug arp ascending and do the same half step slide)

2. When the V chord hits, if play the G# Aug arp ascending, the last note you it is E (5th of A), then slide a wholestep up to F# which lands you in the 6/13 of the I chord. (If you play the arp descending your last note is G# (7th of A) then a half step slide into the Root of the I chord.

And here's the same idea but with Diminished arps

1. Ascend up an F diminished Arp and do a half step slide backwards to get to the 3rd of A / Descend down the arp and half step slide up to land of the 6th/13 of A.
2. Ascend up an Ab dim arp and hs slide back to land on the 5th of A / Descend down the arp and hs slide up to the Root of A.
3. Ascend up a B dim arp and hs slide to the Root of A / Descend down the arp and slide up a whole step to get to the 3rd of A.
4. Ascend up a D dim arp and ws slide down to the Root / Descend down the aro and to a hs slide to the 3rd.

Hopefully this helps and sparks some ideas

idssdi · Feb 13, 2020

Ids Schiere said:
I think I have a new pet peeve. Doing E+5 Arpeggios and follow it by F diminished arpeggios over E7

I'm definetely using pet peeves wrong in this context. I love Doing E+5 Arpeggios and follow it by F diminished arpeggios over E7 a lot

Ed Seith · Feb 18, 2020

Ids Schiere said:
I'm definetely using pet peeves wrong in this context. I love Doing E+5 Arpeggios and follow it by F diminished arpeggios over E7 a lot

Correct - you are using it wrong. That's okay. Your english is betterer than a lot of people born in the US.

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