Do you guys actually like using the caged system?
- Thread starter Isaac Moss
- Start date
I think you’re over complicating it a bit much. I use it AFTER I know which chords I’m using to find my arpeggios.
It’s also a neat tool to find different positions on the fretboard to play your scales or notes. I wouldnt reall use it to find other chords I can play over a melody. I think that may cause you too much stress.
If that’s what you meant by it though. I dont use it all the time unless on looking for different positions for the same chords. Or to go an octave up or down…etc.
Hope that helps a bit.
It’s also a neat tool to find different positions on the fretboard to play your scales or notes. I wouldnt reall use it to find other chords I can play over a melody. I think that may cause you too much stress.
If that’s what you meant by it though. I dont use it all the time unless on looking for different positions for the same chords. Or to go an octave up or down…etc.
Hope that helps a bit.
I agree w Ids, you learn it to forget it. I use CAGED all the time but I’m not thinking about it. This is why community is so important. A second or even a 100th opinion might provide a better path for you. There are a lot of people that don’t like the CAGED system. I personally love it and I think it certainly can’t hurt to have it in the tool box.
J
Jak Angelescu
Guest
I love you with all my heart man but in the beginning you simply must think about what chord you are on. And this is not to limit you creatively, this is to actually enhance you creatively. I know it’s hard and it’s really frustrating but once you start mastering the caged system you start seeing patterns and you are able to start experimenting with rebel notes more and making things sound your own. Also, learning the caged system helped me massively understand how 7th and dominant chords work And how to adjust little nuances inside of each scale to make them fit those chords and I don’t even know those types of scales are or what they are called! It sounds to me like you are feeling a little bit down on yourself and you are trying to rationalize the concept that the Caged system may not be necessary because of it. Well in part you are right. You may never want to learn the Caged system in your whole life. There are dozens if not hundreds of well-known guitarists that don’t even know what the Caged system is. And they are still good guitarists. But it depends on what kind of guitar player you want to be. If you want to be able to sit in and jam with people it’s definitely going to help you out. And a majority of these well-known guitar players are utilizing the Caged system not necessarily knowing that they are. If you want to be a punk rock guitarist knowing the Caged system may not be a necessity. But if you are looking up to people like Joe Satriani and Synyster Gates you are definitely going to want to put it in your Arsenal. I encourage you to check out these two improvisations I did. These were able to be done by me using the Caged system. You said that it sounds too obvious when somebody uses it. It always does in the beginning! But that’s because you are getting used to it 
go ahead and listen to these two things and give me your feedback on it whether or not it sounds like I am using the Caged system
go ahead and listen to these two things and give me your feedback on it whether or not it sounds like I am using the Caged system
J
Jak Angelescu
Guest
Here’s how I look at it. There’s writing “My dog has fleas,” and there’s writing “The Lord of the Rings.” Both start with learning letters and basic sentence structure. It’s how much (and how well) you practice those letters, words, and structures that determine just how good a writer you become.
Early writing is all formulaic and simple, and derivative, and repetitive and, eventually, BORING. But the more you write, the more you begin to understand nuance, and find your own language within it, and expand and get better.
Practice is not just about mechanics and memorization. It’s about finding your own unique voice, whether writing words or music. CAGED is the letters and the sentence structure. The more you work with it and the more you practice, the better you get at finding your own uniqueness within it.
This is where I admire the fuck out of Jak. I can sit here and say this shit – PONTIFICATE – all day, but she’s throwing her heart and her head into putting it into action, every day. She inspires me to want to do that, myself, and I’m gonna start soon with CAGED, for sure.
I hope no one remembers I said that same thing like a year ago… Ahem…
Early writing is all formulaic and simple, and derivative, and repetitive and, eventually, BORING. But the more you write, the more you begin to understand nuance, and find your own language within it, and expand and get better.
Practice is not just about mechanics and memorization. It’s about finding your own unique voice, whether writing words or music. CAGED is the letters and the sentence structure. The more you work with it and the more you practice, the better you get at finding your own uniqueness within it.
This is where I admire the fuck out of Jak. I can sit here and say this shit – PONTIFICATE – all day, but she’s throwing her heart and her head into putting it into action, every day. She inspires me to want to do that, myself, and I’m gonna start soon with CAGED, for sure.
I hope no one remembers I said that same thing like a year ago… Ahem…
I found the CAGED system really useful and helped my playing in general when I knew what I was doing with it. I mean it took a while to link all chords with scales and arpeggios, but after a while you tend not to think about what chord your playing as such, or arpeggios etc. It just becomes muscle memory really with the shapes and even common progressions such as ii V I or I IV V etc.
Personally I found it really helped to develop my knowledge of the fretboard, along with intervals and general shapes. I began to find the notes and intervals quite quickly because of it. You find that targeting the right note at the right time becomes easier, and can follow the chord progressions that are being played.
You stick to real box-like shapes at first, moving vertical, but then start to link shapes horizontally.
Definitely worth sticking to it for a while, lots of benefits to it. It doesnt have to be obvious, you could add string skips, bigger intervals, arpeggios and various other techniques to break away from any obviousness playing.
Personally I found it really helped to develop my knowledge of the fretboard, along with intervals and general shapes. I began to find the notes and intervals quite quickly because of it. You find that targeting the right note at the right time becomes easier, and can follow the chord progressions that are being played.
You stick to real box-like shapes at first, moving vertical, but then start to link shapes horizontally.
Definitely worth sticking to it for a while, lots of benefits to it. It doesnt have to be obvious, you could add string skips, bigger intervals, arpeggios and various other techniques to break away from any obviousness playing.
Kfir you’re mind will be blown as you go through the lessons. Although simple runs and melodies they for one got stuck in my head at work and two really open your eyes to the patterns. Once you see the entire fretboard you’ll see how easy it is to go from one place to another. And that usually involves the caged system. That lesson really opened my eyes on it. I wrote an entire song using the caged system. You have to go a long way back to find it but I’m redoing it so you should just wait til I record it lol. And pg liked it! That was my favourite part.
I feel like I’m rewriting my essay again.
I feel like I’m rewriting my essay again.
That’s a lot of responses guys and I read em all! thanks for all the words of advice. And Jak I listened to your improvs and those sounded fucking sick, the second one kinda reminded me of father Gilmour. I’ll keep trying with it though because if you and Syn use it then I’ll definitely keep working on it. I’ve got al the notes memorized and I know the notes of a lot of common chords so I’ll try and combine that with CAGED. Right now I’m trying to stay in one spot and that’s pretty tough for me to be honest because normally I slide all over the place but I won’t give up !
CAGED is a tool. Just like a scale is a tool. It’s all about using that given tool to benefit you. When we first learn something – we are really a slave to it. As it becomes second nature, we can use it and bend it to our will. Trust your ears. Choose your notes accordingly. Make it musical. CAGED will help you get into different positions more easily, but what you do there is entirely up to you. Strive to make your playing interesting.
Great advice guys! I agree with you Papa Gates I’m trying to make your playing interesting, I like to do a lotta slow tapping stuff when I Solo and like fling my fingers around in weird to spots to sound well, WEIRD XD. Also I think I am using CAGED then because I basically use the entire fretboard when I Solo! I guess I’m just not too good at like following chords because I always lose focus on that and tend to try and make cool lines and stuff. What do you guys focus on?
You shouldn’t think of the CAGED system as its own thing, like you are bound to using only those shapes and scales pattern. You can fit literally any other scale pattern you’ve every learned over those CAGED octave shapes. A good example are the 3-note per string patterns. People think of them as completely separate, but 3nps major scale patterns still have roots too right? The whole point is just to let you know where you are at on the fretboard so you dont get lost, especially when changing chords/keys/tonalities.
The other great thing about CAGED is that it helps you think in auditory intervals as opposed to just seeing visual shapes on the fretboard. Ultimately, music is all about sound, so we should be thinking in sound.
If there is some reason you don’t like it, my guess is that it’s just new and you aren’t used to is yet. You have to build a level of comfort with it, just like any other new concept or technique, before you start to feel good about it. There are a lot of things in life that will feel uncomfortable because they are new or difficult. The important thing is to keep trying and practicing until the uncomfortable becomes your new comfort zone.
The other great thing about CAGED is that it helps you think in auditory intervals as opposed to just seeing visual shapes on the fretboard. Ultimately, music is all about sound, so we should be thinking in sound.
If there is some reason you don’t like it, my guess is that it’s just new and you aren’t used to is yet. You have to build a level of comfort with it, just like any other new concept or technique, before you start to feel good about it. There are a lot of things in life that will feel uncomfortable because they are new or difficult. The important thing is to keep trying and practicing until the uncomfortable becomes your new comfort zone.
Also something that I really like to follow it the 5 levels of competancy. Read through it and decide where you might be with any given skill in your life.
Unconscious incompetence
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognize their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.
Conscious incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, they recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
Conscious competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.
Unconscious competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become “second nature” and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
Mastery
The individual has transcended the skill to a point where the rules of what is possible can be bent and twisted at will. Their skill is artful, beautiful, and astounding to watch. They take to skill to new places or levels that were previously not thought possible. As far as guitarists go, Syn would probably cite Frank Gambale, Allan Holdsworth, and Guthrie Govan. We would all probably cite Syn!
Unconscious incompetence
The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognize their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.
Conscious incompetence
Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, they recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.
Conscious competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.
Unconscious competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become “second nature” and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.
Mastery
The individual has transcended the skill to a point where the rules of what is possible can be bent and twisted at will. Their skill is artful, beautiful, and astounding to watch. They take to skill to new places or levels that were previously not thought possible. As far as guitarists go, Syn would probably cite Frank Gambale, Allan Holdsworth, and Guthrie Govan. We would all probably cite Syn!
Following chords in your solos isn’t Nescecarily CAGED related because you can follow chords in one position perfectly fine and don’t really need to know the whole system for it. Do you need to practice following chords? Yes! It definetely helps you target notes and picking the ones that sound good for you over the specific chord with a little bit less trouble instead of just kinda lucky guessing.
Isaac I have a decent idea of what the caged system is but I’m years away from having it mastered. But it does a good job is dumping down 4 or 5 notes and stretching them put to the point where you realize you only need to go up 2 strings and over 1 to go up an octave. Or you can go behind up 1 string and over 5 to play the same lick.. etc.
In the end itll help you find the best places to play your solos most comfortable. I’ve noticed I will look now for the best area to get where I wanna go. I’m still trying to make my paths more verticle then horizontal.
For a sweeper I feel it’s very necessary and judging by your Instagram videos I feel you into that style of music.
In the end itll help you find the best places to play your solos most comfortable. I’ve noticed I will look now for the best area to get where I wanna go. I’m still trying to make my paths more verticle then horizontal.
For a sweeper I feel it’s very necessary and judging by your Instagram videos I feel you into that style of music.
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