Is CAGED really that bad?

[MasonTheWZRD]

Hello everyone,
So far I am enjoying learning the CAGED system. Some people I have talked too and on forums on the internet most people tend to bash CAGED saying that it “boxes” your playing and you lose creativity and just stating a bunch of negative things. What are everyones thoughts on it? I personally do not think its that bad but for just starting out there may be some things I do not know about it.

 

[Kevin Welton]

Personally i think it gets knocked a lot of the time because a lot of player will learn the shapes and then neglect the theory behind them! I personally like the CAGED system when learning scales, it’s a good start for anyone as it gives you a map of the fretboard when you first start practicing improvising but it’s always a good idea to delve deeper into the theory

 

[Krisztián Hauser]

Well… I started learning the system this morning after 5 years of playing guitar, and as far as i can see now, if the system is learned well then it can make you navigate on the freatboard quickly and easily. And i think it only blocks you if you let it. I’m starting to mix it in my regular improvisation and right now i feel it just gave me more way to improvise. So i’m looking forward to learning it fully … If it will block me than i will look up this comment and delete it haha

 

[Kevin Welton]

It shouldn’t block you if you are working on understanding the theory behind the shapes

 

[Daniel Riker Helstad]

Some players gets out of the cage and some stay in it. It’s a shame because it is a wonderful system where you can learn how to navigate the fretboard efficiently and learning som good scales and what not. It’s not bad, it’s great. Once you feel you’ve gotten the hang of it, you can start experimenting adding in a few odd notes and figuring out how these notes change up the whole thing with only one or two notes. It’s cool, it’s a nice reference point.

 

[Brian Haner Sr.]

The whole idea of CAGED is that the positions are meant to be linked. It gives you the freedom to navigate the entire fretboard in any given key as well as stay in the box. But if you think you can only stay in one position – you are missing the whole point of it. It’s a tool that works efficiently vertically AND horizontally. Nothing more.
Moreover – it IS how the fretboard is set up. It’s not someone’s opinion. You may have a different way to navigate or think about the fretboard, and that’s fine, but to say it doesn’t work or to deny it’s validity is like saying you don’t believe 2+2 equals 4.
Is it the ONLY way to think of the guitar fretboard? Absolutely not. The same way you can think about 4 as 3+1 or 1+1+1+1. There are different ways to get to the same answer. I just happen to think CAGED is the most efficient. Especially when you’re starting out.
I learned to play guitar long before anybody coined the phrase “CAGED”. But I was working within that system – maybe instinctively. I knew the C shape linked to the A shape, etc. AGAIN – because that’s the only way it works. You can’t link the C shape to the G shape because you wish it worked that way. There are certain truths about it that can’t be denied.
Embrace it and I promise you will know the fretboard ten times better than all the CAGED haters.

 

[Christopher Lonski]

Yeah, what Brian said. CAGED is the best way to learn things because you start thinking in terms of chord shapes and harmony rather than just visual patterns that sound like you’re just running scales up and down, which people tend to do when they only know the 3 note per string patterns. It’s also much easier to find the key center and chords tones in a single position. A good exercise is to pick a 5 fret space on the neck and run through the cycle of fifths in that single position. Its MUCH more difficult if you only know the 3 not per strings patterns. And to add to that, you aren’t confined to just playing the fingering in CAGED that shown in the lessons here. You can totally apply the 3 note per string patterns to the octave shapes from CAGED, and you totally should! 3 note per string patterns are still totally valid and serve a purpose, as long as you know and can hear what each of those notes does in the harmony you’re playing over. I think its much more conducive to making your lines sound musical to use CAGED as your basis and then apply the other patterns to it afterwards.

 

[idssdi]

I’ve Just found out That i’ve using the caged system for quite some time now. I Just never realiseren it was called the cage system.

 

[Chris Robertson]

I don’t know that time and effort spent learning any system, be it Caged or others, is ever a bad thing. Building your knowledge of the instrument, in any form, increases your foundation in music as well as gives you a better method to express your musical ideas and creativity.
I think some of the negative connotations might be associated with creative ideas sounding too similar over a long period of time given the patterns of the shapes in Caged. For example, I had guitar teachers in the past warn about spending too much of my time in the pentatonic scale (not the same as Caged, granted, but bear with me). They said that over the course of writing 15-20 songs, that the tunes may sound the same. The counter to that thought would be famous artists that have built most of their careers and albums on the pentatonic scale. Neither way of looking at it would be wrong or right. If you want your music to have a depth of variety, that would likely mean you’d need to learn more than the pentatonic. If you just love that sound of the pentatonic scale and want that as your signature style, then there might not be much need to learn or use other scales or modes. This could loosely be the same view for Caged.
If it works for you and you enjoy it, then there’s nothing bad about it at all. If you learn it and want/need more, then simply have it as one tool in your belt and learn something additional as another tool.
Heck, I say anything that makes you pick up your guitar and spend time with it is a good thing!

 

[Brian Oravetz]

The commentary that you guys have given on CAGED in these few posts is better than any article I have ever read on the approach; and it is the most informative and well explained.
It’s akin to putting a tangible physical framework to the crossroads of emotion and logic.

 

[John Setzler]

I’m on lesson 21 and the theory of the scales and CAGED system is eating away at my brain. I know WHAT the pentatonic scale is and that the CAGED system allows you to play the same chord in different shapes across the fretboard. I just don’t know HOW the pentatonic and major scales are constructed and how they construct chords (along wuth the 1-3-5 method amd so forth) and how they work with the CAGED system and WHY. I don’t know if I’m overthinking it or what but I’m just confused.

 

[Jen Hapke]

When you are watching lesson 21 you are still two lessons away from the CAGED system lessons. I recommend watching them and I recommend to blend in the fretbord in the option section so you can see which note is played. Lessons 24 to 28 explain the CAGED system in case of a D major. It shows the D major scales based on the different shapes and the fitting pentatonic scales as well as double stops, aparegios and so on.
The D major chord consists of 1-3-5 as you mentioned (in every shape). To get a major scale you have to add some notes so you have 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, and the octave. In case of the D major scale its: D, E, F#, G, A, B, C# and D again. If you leave out the 4th and 7th you have the pentatonic, in this case you leave out the G and the C#.
I hope this is helpful. The lessons explain it well and i recommend to watch them over and over again, learn to connect the positions ( I’m doing this right now). Some things clear up in the later CAGED lessons for example how to use the system.

 

[John Setzler]

And that’s what I’m doing; re-watching the lessons I don’t understand to try to understand them. For instance, Lessons 7 and 8 he talks about the Major scale and Major chord respectively. He talks about how the Cmaj chord is constructed from the Cmaj scale following the 1-3-5 method. And I may be jumping ahead of myself but as an example would the Amaj scale start on Low E Fret 5 following the same pattern (W-W-H-W-W-W-H)? If so, shouldn’t it follow the same 1-3-5 to make the Amaj chord or am I missing something/jumping ahead of myself?

 

[John Setzler]

After re-watching 8, something clicked. It’s not that EXACT tone that makes up the chord, but that note (Amaj is made of the A note (1) C# (3) and E (5)), correct?

 

[Andrew Milner]

That is correct, the A major chord is in fact made of those notes, which are the first, third and fifth degrees of the A major scale.
Each and every major scale follows the pattern you have mentioned. For example, the A major scale consists of the A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G# and A notes. The difference between A and B is a whole tone (two frets on your guitar). the difference between B and C# is also a whole tone, while the difference between C# and D is only a half tone (so, 1 fret difference on your guitar).
The same logic applies to each and every major scale, the only difference being that you will encounter other sharp or flat notes as well. Lesson 37 which tackles the circle of 5ths will also be of great help in understanding scales.
Hope this helps you.

 

[Jen Hapke]

Yeah your A major chord is correct. All the major scales can be played all over the fretbord and ar allways in this pattern you mentioned: between the 3rd and 4th and between the 7th and 8th note are cromatic staps in every major scale.
I suggest to not rush through the lessons. for example I do one CAGED video a day. Most of the things in the videos are things you have to know without thinking.

 

[Syn Gates]

I’m truly impressed with everyone’s insight, great work and thanks from the bottom of my heart for having such constructive and comprehensive discussions. Bottom line is that CAGED worked wonders for me even tho they are essentially “linked boxes”. It is MY job to break out of the boxes and use this as a tool to support my creativity. As I state in some of my “tips” sections below the CAGED videos, you should try to skip around and not just transition to the neighboring shapes, that really helped me to see all CAGED shapes simultaneously.
Another thought: every scale, chord, and arpeggio lives within a vertical box shape called a “position”. Some arpeggios can be played vertically which we demonstrate in more advanced videos but if you can visualize all of the CAGED shapes at once, then what’s stopping you from playing horizontally, vertically, and skipped positions? Papa Gates states this perfectly by saying that you “learn technique to forget it”. What that means is that you must know this so well that you don’t have to think about it, you will hear notes or a motif in your head and your hands will execute automatically based on familiarity and muscle memory. This takes time so make sure you find ways to enjoy this process by jamming to backing tracks or writing your own licks, chord progressions, and even entire songs with these concepts in mind. Again, great work everyone!

 

[Christopher Lonski]

That “learning technique to forget it” is a great way of thinking about it! Im huge on psychology and how people work and a big part of that is excellence and achievement. There’s a book that Ive been reading that talks about modeling excellence and they go into the “learning model” and the steps it take to get good at something. That saying falls into it perfectly. Here’s a link to what I’m talking about- https://www.habitsforwellbeing.com/stages-of-learning/